U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-12-2016, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Sugarland
13,743 posts, read 12,646,359 times
Reputation: 16584

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Not trying to start another indian war here, but my ancestors were the ones who did the conquering. I don't get anything everyone else doesn't have, freedom, etc, because they built America. So why should I have to pay the offspring of the indians ten times removed because my ancestors killed yours? That isn't fair.
You probably receive the benefit known as "white privilege." That isn't fair either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-12-2016, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
947 posts, read 534,146 times
Reputation: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Not trying to start another indian war here, but my ancestors were the ones who did the conquering. I don't get anything everyone else doesn't have, freedom, etc, because they built America. So why should I have to pay the offspring of the indians ten times removed because my ancestors killed yours? That isn't fair.
The problem with the settling of America is that the conquerors/Pilgrims/etc assumed that the land was theirs for the taking. Notwithstanding that the land was already occupied by indigenous peoples, who considered that the land belonged to all. The white man pushed the Native Americans further and further back into the middle of the country and onto reservations where their way of life was irrevocably altered. Look up the "Trail of Tears" in Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

The Native Americans could no longer earn a living off the land, and were reduced to poverty and alcoholism. Their culture was stripped from them by forcibly converting them to Christianity, and by attending mission schools. To be considered a Native American was a source of shame - I should know, my mother denied her heritage, and I only discovered it by accident.

The benefits that some Native Americans receive are an attempt to make up for past shortcomings, since the imprint of the deprivation and poverty transmits from generation to generation. Plus, some of the benefits are from tribal lands, owned by the people. Some Native Americans are trapped in a cycle of dependency, as are some African Americans. Some do not have the skills to succeed.

There are parallels in what was done to the Africans who were forcibly removed from Africa, sold into slavery, and after being freed, had few skills, and were subject to discrimination of the worst kind for generations. Their descendants do not have an easy time of it as compared to Africans and Caribbeans immigrating to the US today, who do not have this ingrained historical deprivation.

What I am trying to say is that the past mistreatment of these peoples has created some dysfunctional societies in the present. None of my white ancestors harmed a slave, or owned slaves, yet I feel that we should collectively try to help their descendants, if they are still caught in the cycle of dependency. We need to find a way to help them fairly, and to not continue to throw money at them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-12-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
19,652 posts, read 18,717,326 times
Reputation: 33386
Let's keep this on topic, please. No bickering.
__________________
my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2016, 12:12 PM
 
1 posts, read 906 times
Reputation: 10
I have a tribal card and would like to know if I can get medical help since I am on disability and have no insurance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 09:19 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,539 posts, read 28,465,576 times
Reputation: 43381
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandMtnAngel View Post
I have a tribal card and would like to know if I can get medical help since I am on disability and have no insurance.
Wouldn't the best place to ask that question be at your tribal administration office?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-09-2016, 09:39 AM
 
277 posts, read 478,559 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbadude711 View Post
I am Chikamaka Cherokee and I have a certificate notarized that says Randy Nelson Greene is Hereby Known and Found as a Lineal Descendant by Blood of the Chikamaka-Cherokee As Such is Hereby the Rights and Privileges Set Forth that this bestows Given Under My Hand This 5th Day of November 2005. Sgned : Charlie Lawson just wondering if I can receive any medical or any type of benefits from this
No you can't. My details are below since the people who answered you know NO better.

There are only three federally recognized Cherokee tribes. United Keetoowah, The Cherokee Nation and The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. Cherokee people had a past (treaty) and a current ongoing relationship with the US Federal government.

Chikamaka, Chickamaugas, Kookamunga... is on the list of fraudulent Cherokee tribes. Fraudulent means the people which make up this "tribe" have no proven lineal connection to the Cherokee peoples of the three federal tribes (or any tribes) thus cannot show they are American Indians or have any connections to Indigenous Americans. Cherokee people as in the three nations I listed who are documented Cherokee are on tribal rolls below.

Eastern Rolls - Cherokee East of the Mississippi
Reservation Rolls of 1817
Emigration Rolls of 1817
Henderson Roll of 1835
Mullay Roll of 1848
Siler Roll of 1851
Chapman Roll of 1852
Swetland Roll of 1869
Hester Roll of 1883
Churchill Roll of 1908
Baker Roll of 1924 - Final Rolls used for enrollment Eastern Band
Eastern portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909

Western - Nation and Keetoowah
Old Settler Roll of 1851
Drennen Roll of 1852
Dawes Rolls of 1898-1914 Final Roll Nation and Keetoowah
Western portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909

This is from a site and the bottom I have excerpt a statement for their lack of lineal connections which by the way is an excuse thousands of people use for their lack of Indian connections. Only a small group of people have "Indian in them" and no documents included. An autosomal DNA test may yield this.

"If you are researching genealogy for people who are Chikamaka, you will find records of people’s deaths but will never find that person on any US Census because they chose not to participate. Others did participate and were either labeled as “White”, Mulatto, or “Free Person’s of Color.”"
CHIKAMAKA

American Indians were not included on the General US Population Census. So no, no Indians will be found there. There were people in the general US population who were remotely Indian and fell from the census. Indians, they were on a designated tribal census or tribal rolls for Indians which also noted their degree of tribal blood among other things. The only Indians on the general census were "Taxed" Indians living off the reservations. Between 1790 thru the early 1900's, the Enumerator was gathering information via foot. He went from house to house or shack to shack. I'm not sure what this "chose not to participate" would actually means I their link as the enumerator knocked on the the persons door of the house.
The fraud tribes usually have very shaky and questionable connections to any tribes in regions they are claiming.

In short, unless you can show the US Federal Government you belong to a US Federal Tribe and show that tribe, you belong to them and meet their enrollment qualifications, you want benefits as Aetna says....Call Aetna, they'll be glad they met ya.

Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 10-09-2016 at 10:13 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-09-2016, 09:44 AM
 
277 posts, read 478,559 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
Wouldn't the best place to ask that question be at your tribal administration office?
That person is a fraud. When you are enrolled in a US Federal tribe, you are given all the information on benefits you are entitled to under your enrollment status for that tribe. You are correct, tribal members, citizens of the nations go to our tribal offices for assistance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-09-2016, 10:00 AM
 
277 posts, read 478,559 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
Not trying to start another indian war here, but my ancestors were the ones who did the conquering. I don't get anything everyone else doesn't have, freedom, etc, because they built America. So why should I have to pay the offspring of the indians ten times removed because my ancestors killed yours? That isn't fair.
Thank you for your admittance. Time for you to go to Indian School.

Please show me where people 10x's removed from an Indian ancestor receive payment? Most federal tribes, you need to be at least 1/4 Indian to be enrolled (by tribe requirement). However, there are quite a few that your degree of Indian blood is not a requirement to enroll but by lineal descent. However, no money is there and people are not being issued pay checks.

A word of note, tribal members around the US are not receiving paychecks for being Indian. Many tribes receive benefits as in hospital care if we show our enrollment status. Food programs, welfare programs, free or reduced lunches in school. We are a small part of the US population and many of us contrary to belief have jobs and live in the general population.
Please counter this to the enormous number of people (non-Indians) on welfare or receiving public assistance through the Federal or State governments. I live in an apartment and I pay full market rent. Compare this to a non-Indian person on Section 8, rental assistance and mortgage programs. I get no breaks with my apartment corporation because of being "Indian" of any degree. Scholarships if we maintain a GPA or say 3.0 or higher. Compare this to grants or people receiving the very public Federal Pell Grant or State Grants according to income regardless of race. If tribes have a casino lets say, royalties can be paid out but no one in the tribe is rich among the common tribal peoples.

Before you sling out a statement as such, get your facts straight.

Breaking down one Indian Myth at a time.

Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 10-09-2016 at 10:10 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-09-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Somewhere, out there in Zone7B
4,865 posts, read 6,302,617 times
Reputation: 4450
Was looking for something else on this part of the CD forum and ran across this thread. Not something I really know/care about but remembered a story from about 7-8 years ago...


My ex's son who co-owns a stereo/security business for vehicles/water craft had a young girl, I think she was about 19 years old, who was having her Mercedes tricked out to look like a Barbie car. They had it painted pink, pink rims, the interior was pink leather, bells and whistles after market that you couldn't even think of. I asked how a young girl of this age, who didn't look like she had a pot to **** in (she stopped by when we were there) could pay for all this. My ex's son said she gets $10k from the tribe each month. It would probably be Miccosukee or Seminole. I was floored. They alone were charging her over $30k for all that she wanted to be done to this Mercedes.


I was wondering as I wrote the above, if it was really true. Seems so, from this 2016
article I just found:


Miccosukee Holdout Bobby C. Billie Argues Tribes Own All South Florida | Miami New Times


Nearly all natives enrolled in tribes. Enrolled members receive dividends from casino profits, reportedly as much as $10,000 a month.


BTW, the car was butt ugly!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-09-2016, 05:12 PM
 
277 posts, read 478,559 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldemila View Post
Was looking for something else on this part of the CD forum and ran across this thread. Not something I really know/care about but remembered a story from about 7-8 years ago...


My ex's son who co-owns a stereo/security business for vehicles/water craft had a young girl, I think she was about 19 years old, who was having her Mercedes tricked out to look like a Barbie car. They had it painted pink, pink rims, the interior was pink leather, bells and whistles after market that you couldn't even think of. I asked how a young girl of this age, who didn't look like she had a pot to **** in (she stopped by when we were there) could pay for all this. My ex's son said she gets $10k from the tribe each month. It would probably be Miccosukee or Seminole. I was floored. They alone were charging her over $30k for all that she wanted to be done to this Mercedes.


I was wondering as I wrote the above, if it was really true. Seems so, from this 2016
article I just found:


Miccosukee Holdout Bobby C. Billie Argues Tribes Own All South Florida | Miami New Times


Nearly all natives enrolled in tribes. Enrolled members receive dividends from casino profits, reportedly as much as $10,000 a month.


BTW, the car was butt ugly!
Would probably be "Miccosukee or Seminole?" Can't name her exact tribe? You have a problem with perception and reality.

Firstly, there are 560 Nations. Out of the 560 only 224 having Gaming (casinos). 175 are marginal in success. So no, NOT all Natives receive dividends and or doing well. Tribes in rural locations are isolated and have no casinos. There are only two tribes which are very successful because they are smaller (less than 500 members) and have a high revenue. Connecticut the Mashantucket and in Minnesota the Shakopee. Foxwoods in CT is the largest in the world. Before monies are dispensed to tribal members, money is allocated to tribal needs. What is 10k one month in a successful tribe can be 2k in a following month. Even tribes such as the Mashantucket in CT like any other US casino is not consistent and does not do well especially when they economy is not good.

Indian Casino's, we don't ask you to visit them. Most people are aware they are owned by tribes. Indian gaming has not helped the poverty on Indian reservations.

BTW....I don't believe your silly story about the car.

Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 10-09-2016 at 06:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top