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Old 02-21-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 16,224,208 times
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I wonder if there are Native American genes in most Americans, even though there are apparently few Native Americans who look Native American or can be proven to be Native American.

There are a few Native American celebrities (though I'm not sure their exact ancestry). Here's a list. I'm not sure how accurate it is. Mainstream Hollywood Actors with Native ancestry List of Native Americans of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One celebrity that comes to my mind is Taylor Lautner.

I know of three St. Louis athletes (Kyle Lohse, T.J. Oshie, and Sam Bradford) who claim to have Native American ancestry. You can tell it in Lohse and Bradford more than Oshie. Jacoby Ellsbury and Joba Chamberlain are also Native American.

Here's an article about Native Americans having a hard time succeeding in sports.
Native American athletes face imposing hurdles - USATODAY.com

Last edited by STLCardsBlues1989; 02-21-2011 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
Ive never met a full blooded native american in my entire life, most people that claim to be are usually mixed with whites or hispanic, etc,
Then I suggest going to the Southwest or the Dakotas, the Navajo, Hopi and Lakota have quite a few members who are "full blooded" if that means no admixture with Europeans. As for hispanics... that's rather confusing terminology since a person can be a "hispanic" and a "full blooded" native American.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
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I agree with Fullback32, it depends on what region of the country you consider and how blood quantum is "measured". One of my friends, for example, is a "double half-breed" -- he is half Cherokee and half Shawnee. May I also add that it depends on how much blood quantum is required for membership in a specific tribe or nation.

I know, for example, that the Mississippi Band of Choctaw, requiring a verified blood quantum of 50% or more for membership, has a large number of FBI's. Take a look where they are (central Mississippi), and consider how unpopular NDNs must have been in that region, beginning after The Removal in the 1830's and continuing well into the 20th century.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
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I lived in NE OKalhoma near the headquarters of the nine tribes. my best firend is Cherokee.- Irish. She is very faithful to her Cherokee heritage.and has taught me everything i didn't learn in school about tribal life. Here soon to be husband is full blook Navajo. His parents live on a reservation and do not speak English. Their parents lived in the same place. I have no reason to believe my former neighbor is not a full blood Navajo. He said his ancestors walked the Trail of Tears. Who amIi to questions whether or not his relative was violated in the 1800s? That's over a 100 years ago. he says he is and his parents say they are full blood Navajo and I believe it.

Probably the biggest pleasure was being able to watch his nephew get ready for powow. he is a dedicated dancer and I was able to larn about the face paint and foot steps. What I thought was helter-skelter actually has a specific reason and meaning. His regalia was not only coloful, it too had a reason and meaning. It was a fantastic learning experience and a bit of an adventure as I had never been invited to a powwow. The nephew's young son wants to be a dancer like his dad. He wore pint-sized regalia and was dancing. Pretty good. too!

Last edited by linicx; 02-21-2011 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,115,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
I wonder if there are Native American genes in most Americans, even though there are apparently few Native Americans who look Native American or can be proven to be Native American.

There are a few Native American celebrities (though I'm not sure their exact ancestry). Here's a list. I'm not sure how accurate it is. Mainstream Hollywood Actors with Native ancestry List of Native Americans of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One celebrity that comes to my mind is Taylor Lautner.

I know of three St. Louis athletes (Kyle Lohse, T.J. Oshie, and Sam Bradford) who claim to have Native American ancestry. You can tell it in Lohse and Bradford more than Oshie. Jacoby Ellsbury and Joba Chamberlain are also Native American.

Here's an article about Native Americans having a hard time succeeding in sports.
Native American athletes face imposing hurdles - USATODAY.com
Okay, first, there are way more than you realize. Similar to what ovcatto said, visit the Dakotas, New Mexico, Arizona, Montana, Wyoming, Oklahoma and so on. I promise you will see lots of Indians who "look it".

I woud also remind you that natives from different nations do look different, though to the white eye, they can't see it like we can. Not all natives look like the "plains Indian" image so many nons picture when they think Indian. For instance, I can tell a Navajo a mile away. Most natives can tell that I'm "plains" even though I'm half-white.

There's also a matter of the the word "claim" that you mentioned. There is a big difference between enrolled tribal members and those that simply claim to be part-Indian. The individual tribes decide by what criteria people can be enrolled. Some tribes require a relatively high blood quantum while others only require that you can prove relationship to someone on some roll.

Part of the problem that many Americans run into when it comes to the whole "disappearing Indian" thing is that they don't live in areas with native communities in them. If you live in a state where there are little to no native communities, then yes, you're mainly going to see those who only claim some Indian blood or the wannabes and twinkies who are playing Indian. That last group I mentioned create quite a problem for us when it comes to perceptions of Indian people in the 21st century and is why we don't like them very much.

The word community is important because Indian people, meaning those who are enrolled (and even sometimes not), grew up with their ways, and who know their family and relations gather in those communities. We're not all over the place like other ethnicities. With only roughly two million enrolled Indian people, you aren't going to see us spread out throughout the country. To see us, you have to go to where we are...in our communities.

Last edited by Fullback32; 02-21-2011 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Many/Most "Mexicans" are predominantly Native American. Only about 10% of the population of Mexico is Spanish.

True. I have a friend who is half Mexican and half Apache. I asked him if that meant he was more than 3/4 Native American. He wasn't sure.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: DC
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From my reading of history, most Native American tribes were not very concerned with the "purity" of their blood lines. They took captives and incorporated them as members of the tribe. This "full blooded indian" concern seems to be a white man's perspective that is migrating into at least some of the discussion about who is or is not a Native American.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 16,224,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Okay, first, there are way more than you realize. Similar to what ovcatto said, visit the Dakotas, New Mexico, Arizona, Montana, Wyoming, Oklahoma and so on. I promise you will see lots of Indians who "look it".

I woud also remind you that natives from different nations do look different, though to the white eye, they can't see it like we can. Not all natives look like the "plains Indian" image so many nons picture when they think Indian. For instance, I can tell a Navajo a mile away. Most natives can tell that I'm "plains" even though I'm half-white.

There's also a matter of the the word "claim" that you mentioned. There is a big difference between enrolled tribal members and those that simply claim to be part-Indian. The individual tribes decide by what criteria people can be enrolled. Some tribes require a relatively high blood quantum while others only require that you can prove relationship to someone on some roll.

Part of the problem that many Americans run into when it comes to the whole "disappearing Indian" thing is that they don't live in areas with native communities in them. If you live in a state where there are little to no native communities, then yes, you're mainly going to see those who only claim some Indian blood or the wannabes and twinkies who are playing Indian. That last group I mentioned create quite a problem for us when it comes to perceptions of Indian people in the 21st century and is why we don't like them very much.

The word community is important because Indian people, meaning those who are enrolled (and even sometimes not), grew up with their ways, and who know their family and relations gather in those communities. We're not all over the place like other ethnicities. With only roughly two million enrolled Indian people, you aren't going to see us spread out throughout the country. To see us, you have to go to where we are...in our communities.
Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My point was the Native Americans make up a small percentage of the total population, so in that sense there are not many left. At the same time, every race has certain traits that people look for. It may be accurate or not, but we all look at someone's features sometimes and wonder whether they have the features we would expect. I realize not all Native American tribes look alike, but most people assume that there are some Native American features. If you ask someone who is not Native American whether a person is Native American based on looks people probably would look for what they would think a Native American would look like.

As far as claiming, I meant that a lot of people state that they have Native American ancestry, whether it can be proven or even if it is a very small amount. That is fine, however I think you were complaining before about some people getting Native American benefits when they have very little Native American blood. That's kind of what I was referring to. I can certainly see how Native Americans who are very involved in their culture could resent someone claiming to have the same rights and benefits when they do not live in that culture.

I've been told by a Native American tribe member (she worked with my sister so I don't know her well. I'm not sure what tribe she was) that my nose is a Native American trait. I can't remember which tribe she said. Someone else (whose expertise I'm not sure of) said Cherokee. Most of my family members have a bump on the nose or a nose that bends on the end (my grandfathers nose is almost round). Generally people think of certain differences between a Native American nose and a European nose. Of course, not all Native American noses are the same and not all European noses are the same.

It's interesting to think that my ancestors may have been Native American of some kind. It kind of feels like another aspect of my family history. That said, I don't really claim it since I can't prove it and it's likely a very small amount of my ancestry. It is likely that I have Native American blood, but I don't claim to be a part of the culture because I haven't been raised in it and I don't know much about it. I wouldn't claim any medical or financial benefits because of it, because I don't really have any right to them.

I can certainly understand someone who has Native American blood being kind of proud of it, because we all like to look into who our family was and what all happened to them. I wouldn't claim any benefits, though, nor would I claim to be as knowledgeable about it as someone actually raised in the culture.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,115,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
Sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My point was the Native Americans make up a small percentage of the total population, so in that sense there are not many left. At the same time, every race has certain traits that people look for. It may be accurate or not, but we all look at someone's features sometimes and wonder whether they have the features we would expect. I realize not all Native American tribes look alike, but most people assume that there are some Native American features. If you ask someone who is not Native American whether a person is Native American based on looks people probably would look for what they would think a Native American would look like.

As far as claiming, I meant that a lot of people state that they have Native American ancestry, whether it can be proven or even if it is a very small amount. That is fine, however I think you were complaining before about some people getting Native American benefits when they have very little Native American blood. That's kind of what I was referring to. I can certainly see how Native Americans who are very involved in their culture could resent someone claiming to have the same rights and benefits when they do not live in that culture.

I've been told by a Native American tribe member (she worked with my sister so I don't know her well. I'm not sure what tribe she was) that my nose is a Cherokee trait. Most of my family members have a bump on the nose or a nose that bends on the end (my grandfathers nose is almost round). Generally people think of differences between a Native American nose and a European nose. Of course, not all Native American noses are the same and not all European noses are the same.

It's interesting to think that my ancestors may have been Native American of some kind. It kind of feels like another aspect of my family history. That said, I don't really claim it since I can't prove it and it's likely a very small amount of my ancestry. It is likely that I have Native American blood, but I don't claim to be a part of the culture because I haven't been raised in it and I don't know much about it. I wouldn't claim any medical or financial benefits because of it, because I don't really have any right to them.

I can certainly understand someone who has Native American blood being kind of proud of it, because we all like to look into who our family was and what all happened to them. I wouldn't claim any benefits, though, nor would I claim to be as knowledgeable about it as someone actually raised in the culture.
You didn't offend me; sorry if I came across that way. Actually my post wasn't directly at you, but just kind of explaining some things to the group in general. I do tend to use the word "you" a little too liberally. It's just that there are a lot of misconceptions and misperceptions of Indian people out there.

When it comes to those who may have some native blood and are wanting to get enrolled simply to see what they can get out of it, you are right. Those of us who have been NDN all our lives, as it were, get pretty miffed at those people. If those lost people truly want to make a connection with their Nation, learn the culture and be part of the community, then that should be encouraged. If they are simply looking for freebies, please, don't bother.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
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Being NDN doesn't mean we sit around smoking a peace pipe and dance pow-wows all the time. There are some who do, but there are many more who display their NDN heritage in much more subtle ways... not being real emotional, being a little more stand-offish in a crowd, avoiding physical affection in public, eating certain foods. There are NDN traditions that have continued throughout families and generations that may not neccessarily have a traditional "Indian" meaning behind it, but we still operate according to certain cultural mores that may not be so noticable to an outsider. I've been accused many times of being a b*tch and not being very friendly until people got to know me. But, my whole family is that way until you get to know them.
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