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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,382,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
You didn't offend me; sorry if I came across that way. Actually my post wasn't directly at you, but just kind of explaining some things to the group in general. I do tend to use the word "you" a little too liberally. It's just that there are a lot of misconceptions and misperceptions of Indian people out there.

When it comes to those who may have some native blood and are wanting to get enrolled simply to see what they can get out of it, you are right. Those of us who have been NDN all our lives, as it were, get pretty miffed at those people. If those lost people truly want to make a connection with their Nation, learn the culture and be part of the community, then that should be encouraged. If they are simply looking for freebies, please, don't bother.
And really- there aren't that many freebies to be had.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,119,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milleka View Post
And really- there aren't that many freebies to be had.
Exactly. I wondered how many people have been thoroughly disappointed when they realize this. I've had many non-NDNs tell me how I get free this and free that. Funny, I haven't seen too much of it.

The reason I made that statement concerning freebies had to do with motivations. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it isn't about what one can get from the Nation, but what can one give to the Nation.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,382,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Exactly. I wondered how many people have been thoroughly disappointed when they realize this. I've had many non-NDNs tell me how I get free this and free that. Funny, I haven't seen too much of it.

The reason I made that statement concerning freebies had to do with motivations. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it isn't about what one can get from the Nation, but what can one give to the Nation.
Exactly. That was very "Kennedy" of you.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,382,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Exactly. I wondered how many people have been thoroughly disappointed when they realize this. I've had many non-NDNs tell me how I get free this and free that. Funny, I haven't seen too much of it.

The reason I made that statement concerning freebies had to do with motivations. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it isn't about what one can get from the Nation, but what can one give to the Nation.
The only benefits I've received as an NDN is a car tag and sub-standard healthcare... although I was thankful for that when I needed it. I do not receive a check every month or get housing or anything like that. Some tribes do I guess. I know some of my Osage friends got oil checks every month.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:43 AM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,298,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
The reason I made that statement concerning freebies had to do with motivations. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it isn't about what one can get from the Nation, but what can one give to the Nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milleka View Post
Exactly. That was very "Kennedy" of you.
Heh-heh-heh! You refer to Kennedy's Inaugural "Ask not" speech, for sure.

This CLEARLY highlights one of the many major differences between NDN and Western European cultures. Believe me on this, folks, that there are a whole danged lot of differences that exist to this very day, and that they are likely to exist far into the future.

Whenever one encounters a person who is attempting to attain tribal membership in order to achieve personal gain or remuneration, it is almost certain that said person subscribes to Western European cultures/values. It is equally almost certain that said person has little understanding, and even less appreciation, of NDN cultures/values.

Just my two-hundredths of a dollar,

-- Nighteyes
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 16,236,768 times
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My grandmother is a Jackson. When she was a kid she wanted to be related to someone famous. She would tell people that she was related to Andrew Jackson. Then she found out that he wasn't necessarily an ancestor you would want.

We're not descended from Andrew Jackson. There's so little info, though, that's we could possibly be related to him. That would also be interesting if we were, just as another piece of the ancestry puzzle. I don't believe the same things he did, though. I don't believe as my slaveholding ancestors did either.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,119,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milleka View Post
The only benefits I've received as an NDN is a car tag and sub-standard healthcare... although I was thankful for that when I needed it. I do not receive a check every month or get housing or anything like that. Some tribes do I guess. I know some of my Osage friends got oil checks every month.
The IHS...yep it's better than nothing, but as I have stated in other threads, if the Federal government is blowing it for around two million NDNs, what in the world makes people think they can get it right for the entire country? Be careful of what you ask for. Different discussion though.

The bolded stated you made is an important one. I'm glad this discussion is happening, because what many Americans do not realize is that the whole benefits thing is highly overstated and also very tribal specific (I know you get it Milleka as you are one). The are so many variables that go into it from treaty agreements, to whether a tribal member lives on tribal land, to how well a tribe's casinos are doing (if they even have one and most of the really aren't doing all that well BTW), to what services each individual Nation provides. It kind of goes back to a premise of mine that while most Americans think of us an Indians...we think of ourselves as Comanches, Kiowas, Cherokees, Lakotas, Navajos and so on.

The Red Kennedy's?...aaayyyee.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 876,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Come to New Mexico. There are a lot of people who consider themselves Hispanic who are actually (more-or-less) full blooded indigenous, much less full tribal members.
This ties in with the existence of what is called the genizaro population in New Mexico. While many Southwestern Indians have Spanish surnames as a result of colonial practices (the O'odham nearly all do, for example), there are a substantial number of "former Indians" that were assimilated into the so-called "Mexican-American" population, and essentially became detribalized natives. I know there are cultural revival efforts underway for detribalized Southwestern Indians, as with the attempt to establish a Jumano tribe despite the fact that Jumanos are considered long extinct/assimilated. I don't know of any attempt to re-connect the descendants of genizaros with their hereditary cultural backgrounds, but it would seem a worthy endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Many/Most "Mexicans" are predominantly Native American. Only about 10% of the population of Mexico is Spanish.
That would probably be closer to 15%, or perhaps even 20%, with the migration of so many Mexican Indians to the United States considered. However, even the "Spanish" of Mexico are themselves of minority Indian background, in terms of their genetic admixture. Ironically, a white person with similar admixture proportions in the United States would likely be an actively identifying "Native American," since there is more or less a "one-drop rule," given the relative scarcity of U.S. Indians. The loose blood quantum standards of the Cherokee (any ancestor on the Dawes Rolls) are probably why they are considered the most populous Indian nation in the U.S.; in terms of the highest number of "real Indians," the Navajo would probably win out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
True. I have a friend who is half Mexican and half Apache. I asked him if that meant he was more than 3/4 Native American. He wasn't sure.
It is not possible to be "half Mexican" (I used to believe that I was), because "Mexican" is a national background. It's not a genetically transmittable characteristic.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 12,706,640 times
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A good friend of mine is a Yupik, he came down to N.C. to learn a trade, specifically plumbing, when he feels like he has a good handle on it he intends to go back to NW Alaska and ply his trade.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:55 PM
 
13 posts, read 66,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
There aren't many, but then, there aren't many 'pure' anything, anymore.
I was thinking the same thing.

But how many generations back do you go, to consider yourself pure anyway? And how is anyone pure if humans developed in Africa?
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