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Old 12-14-2013, 01:57 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,091 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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Just to throw another wrench in the works: an Irishman - Brendan the Navigator - beat the Vikings by almost another 500 years!

Vikings in the 900s, Brendan in the 4 or 500s! ----> Brendan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
Old 12-14-2013, 03:34 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,421 posts, read 16,681,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS1 View Post
In response to all the speculation surrounding the "theory" that the Vikings "possibly" came to the Americas before Columbus is in fact just that, FACT. Upon the finding of the Viking settlement in Nova Sotia and the excavation of a buried Viking longship in the same area gives undisputed evidence and proof that the Vikings DID reach NA first. Also further evidence can be found in the Greenland and Icelandic tales of certain Vikings going west and finding what they called Vinland. Why this settlement did not survive is still under much speculation. It is generally considered though that the settlement was simply too logistically difficult to sustain. For instance if a key supply ship or fleet was or were lost in a storm this could have possibly caused the failure of the excavated settlement. Not to mention the fact that the Vikings would have lacked a significant technological advantage to overtake the native population, ie. firearms and cannons, such as Columbus' parties would have possessed. While the Vikings did have steel weapons, tools and armor they lacked the numbers to make this much of an advantage in a fight. In conclusion it has long been speculated that the Vikings did in fact not reach the Americas first but in fact learned of its existence from knowledge gained from Irish monasteries which would have also gave them knowledge of Iceland. Also it is held in great opinion that these Irish monks learned of these lands from fishermen from the Azores.
There is folklore of the early Irish actually reaching the Americas. There are also ancient Irish symbols found outside of caves in the northern parts of the US and into Canada. The Irish were very able sailors and were known to have sailed large distances. If they actually tried to colonise or not is up for grabs, but they very likely knew of the land to the west.

The real significance with Columbus is he was the first able to make a defendable claim on what they found. With numbers the Vikings well may have been able to as well.
 
Old 12-14-2013, 03:46 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,091 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
There is folklore of the early Irish actually reaching the Americas. There are also ancient Irish symbols found outside of caves in the northern parts of the US and into Canada. The Irish were very able sailors and were known to have sailed large distances. If they actually tried to colonise or not is up for grabs, but they very likely knew of the land to the west.

The real significance with Columbus is he was the first able to make a defendable claim on what they found. With numbers the Vikings well may have been able to as well.
Too difficult a passage and too early for the Irish to make a go of it. The Vikings tried and failed. It helps that they Spanish ships Columbus led landed in much warmer climes.
 
Old 12-14-2013, 04:41 PM
 
Location: NoVa
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Interesting. The vikings certainly had contact with the natives, may have even traded with them.

I recently watched a documentary on the Solutrean Hypothesis, which I found rather interesting. Basically there are a handful of archaeologists pointing to (weak) evidence that suggests Europeans came to America during the last ice age, before Native Americans arrived. It hasn't been widely accepted by the greater anthropology and archaeology communities though, and its validity has been challenged as well.
 
Old 12-14-2013, 06:40 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,421 posts, read 16,681,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
Too difficult a passage and too early for the Irish to make a go of it. The Vikings tried and failed. It helps that they Spanish ships Columbus led landed in much warmer climes.
There are a number of places where people from the other continents are speculated to have made contact with the Americas, and its entirely possible all of them are true. But they came, they looked and if they did stay nobody else came. The Irish came in more numbers, but there is little evidence they tried to colonize. Even the settlement that is known built by the Vikings was primarily for trading, not settling. Until technology provided the means to cross the sea repetedly and quickly with a high enough technology they could hold the area any visitors were either going to melt into the existing culture or die or leave.

The problem with discussing who 'discovered' America, which is the usual reference, is that a lot of peoples could have, but what counts if to do more than land and leave/stay/die off.
 
Old 12-15-2013, 04:17 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,091 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASOT View Post
Interesting. The vikings certainly had contact with the natives, may have even traded with them.

I recently watched a documentary on the Solutrean Hypothesis, which I found rather interesting. Basically there are a handful of archaeologists pointing to (weak) evidence that suggests Europeans came to America during the last ice age, before Native Americans arrived. It hasn't been widely accepted by the greater anthropology and archaeology communities though, and its validity has been challenged as well.
Interesting. They may have gotten here at some time and interbred with the population. Not impossible.
 
Old 12-15-2013, 04:18 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,091 posts, read 22,780,245 times
Reputation: 119709
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
There are a number of places where people from the other continents are speculated to have made contact with the Americas, and its entirely possible all of them are true. But they came, they looked and if they did stay nobody else came. The Irish came in more numbers, but there is little evidence they tried to colonize. Even the settlement that is known built by the Vikings was primarily for trading, not settling. Until technology provided the means to cross the sea repetedly and quickly with a high enough technology they could hold the area any visitors were either going to melt into the existing culture or die or leave.

The problem with discussing who 'discovered' America, which is the usual reference, is that a lot of peoples could have, but what counts if to do more than land and leave/stay/die off.
I don't think it's a question of what counts. It's an interesting discussion maybe, but no borders will be re-written based on any of this.
 
Old 12-15-2013, 04:20 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,091 posts, read 22,780,245 times
Reputation: 119709
Okay, here's another wrench in the works: Polynesians!

Thor Heyerdahl demonstrated that a relatively simple boat could go from South American to Polynesia. ---> Kon-Tiki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who's to say the traffic was one-way!
 
Old 12-15-2013, 06:30 AM
 
Location: DC
6,218 posts, read 6,072,597 times
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The Vikings may have learned about NA from the Basque who were fishing the Grand Banks.
 
Old 12-15-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,985 posts, read 17,140,226 times
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I love this stuff. I wonder if, with the recent addition of DNA evidence in genealogy, anything could be proven. Would Viking blood be found in Native Americans?

Throughout New England there are supposed pre-Columbian ruins. Some possibly have runic writing. Probably the most famous is Mystery Hill in Salem NH. Was it built by colonial farmers as a root cellar? Or was it already there when they got there?

These sites are studied but no one can prove anything. They could even be fakes.

The Mysterious Megaliths Of New England
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