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Old 12-15-2013, 01:52 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I love this stuff. I wonder if, with the recent addition of DNA evidence in genealogy, anything could be proven. Would Viking blood be found in Native Americans?

Throughout New England there are supposed pre-Columbian ruins. Some possibly have runic writing. Probably the most famous is Mystery Hill in Salem NH. Was it built by colonial farmers as a root cellar? Or was it already there when they got there?

These sites are studied but no one can prove anything. They could even be fakes.

The Mysterious Megaliths Of New England

They could be fakes. But now that you mention it some stones with unidentified writing have been found far inland, as far as the Mississippi River or further. If they're not fake, they could simply have been made by the native Americans.

 
Old 12-15-2013, 07:35 PM
 
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Maybe Europeans and their descendants are the true Native Americans
 
Old 12-15-2013, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Volcano
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By a funny coincidence, I ran across this earlier today... scientists have found domesticated calabash gourd seeds in South America that are 8,000 years old. They are not native to South America. They ARE native to Africa.

How did they get there?
 
Old 12-15-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
By a funny coincidence, I ran across this earlier today... scientists have found domesticated calabash gourd seeds in South America that are 8,000 years old. They are not native to South America. They ARE native to Africa.

How did they get there?
hmmmmm. I saw something about sweet potatoes. Native to America but found in Polynesia.

How The Sweet Potato Crossed The Pacific Way Before The Europeans Did : The Salt : NPR
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:52 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
I don't think it's a question of what counts. It's an interesting discussion maybe, but no borders will be re-written based on any of this.
True. But for history what matters is if it changed a lot of things for the people already living there. For that, the Spanish get the first prize over other early visitations.

That said, its fascinating how much people of ancient to early medieval time moved about and how much more complex their connections with others were, even if mostly they didn't conquer the land. We imagine simple basic people who operated on a simple technology, but they were much more than that. It shows how we tend to see the past as simplistic.

I'm pretty sure, if they'd had the ability to maintain one, that the Vikings/Norse would have been the first to establish colonies which they intended to maintain, and likely mix with the locals as they did other places. In areas where they lived an extended time, burials mixing local funelrey objects and Norse ones have been commonly found, as if they eventually merged culture to culture.

If we tried to rewrite borders from ancient boundries, then you'd have to decide which ones mattered most. Why generally this isn't done.
 
Old 12-16-2013, 12:46 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
They could be fakes. But now that you mention it some stones with unidentified writing have been found far inland, as far as the Mississippi River or further. If they're not fake, they could simply have been made by the native Americans.
The problem with it being made by native Americans is that they were not known for massive stone work. This is a very detailed and meticulas task, and those cultures which used it, were highly skilled at it. Unless there were native americans on an earlier wave who were killed off who did have stone working talents, the ones present at the time Europeans came did not carve stones.

It's not at all incinceivable that a culture which was an offshoot from ancient Celtic Europe managed to migrate across the sea and lived and built their monuments. We know multiple waves of new residents have passed through the Americas, so why not some who could have sailed west instead of crossing the northern straits.

Up on the border between Oklahoma and Arkansas (If you miss the sign you end up in Arkansas) there is a state park which covers a large open area where the Mississippi people lived before any European came to discover them. By the time present natives settled they were gone, but they had a large and very complex culture based around building mounds. the guidebook takes you in a circle, past mounds which were lived in, and ceremonial and held structures not built like the homes. As we walked around, I realized that it was laid out with the central mound where ceremony was performed in the middle, and the other four ceremonial mounds to perfect north south east and west. There were houses, but mostly that area, by the Arkansas river, was for the priest and kings and ceremony. The valley below and around them has yeilded material from ancient buildings, and where the rest lived. But standing in the middle of this central mound, built by people who lived, prospered, and for unknown reasons dissapeared is a very powerful feeling. It was also very spiritual, as if its 'magic' had never faded.

These people had some form of notation and a language of their own. They are called the Mississippi people since their main population was along the open land near the Mississippi. But they are not remembered in any native lore existing today. Their settlements do not show much in terms of fortifications, and they fought wars but the implicaton is that they lived a largely peaceful life. We don't know what they spoke, but they left art and their tools were unique to themselves.

If it wasn't for the mounds they left, we might not know they existed at all. The people who built these stone monuments and who finished them are just as likely to have existed. Time washes away much of what's left behind. Wait long enough and our buildings and monuments and great accomplishment will the broken bits of things discovered buried in the ground. Mounds and stone survive. Our contributions barely last in out own lifetimes. I can see some future archologoical team pondering the remains of Hoover Dam, but not much else. We too could end up a mystery people who's time had come and gone.
 
Old 12-16-2013, 02:44 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,058 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
By a funny coincidence, I ran across this earlier today... scientists have found domesticated calabash gourd seeds in South America that are 8,000 years old. They are not native to South America. They ARE native to Africa.

How did they get there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
hmmmmm. I saw something about sweet potatoes. Native to America but found in Polynesia.

How The Sweet Potato Crossed The Pacific Way Before The Europeans Did : The Salt : NPR
Birds? Seriously, some birds fly across oceans. Eat part of a calabash gourd that another animal dug out of the ground, then poop the seeds in South America. Eat the seeds from a sweet potato vine in the Americas, then poop the seeds out on a Pacific Island. It's the cycle of poop.
 
Old 12-18-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
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Several years back I had a subscription to a magazine I think called Discovery which had an article mentioning an up turned elderly tree which had in its roots stones with masonic emblems and dated earlier than many previously mentioned cultures. Being that the tree was in one of the far inland tier of northern states I suppose it could have been accessed from the great lakes. What if it was the Templers mistaken for the Vikings? History tells us the Templers left Spain when the king put a bounty on the Templers heads and many left with several ships. Some of the Templers treasures was never located. There is also evidence of masonic markings around Nova Scotia. Just throwing this out on spectulation.
 
Old 12-18-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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DNA doesn't lie. How well the article was written is irrelevant. I'll look forward to seeing more on this topic in the future. One thing to examine would be if the C haplogroup those Icelanders have is one found in the Labrador area and/or adjacent regions.
 
Old 12-19-2013, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Oroville, California
3,056 posts, read 4,351,979 times
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The Vikings did settle Greenland. Maybe it was a Inuit woman.
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