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Old 06-23-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,902,513 times
Reputation: 11780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, I "can" see whatever I want, but I don't choose to see what I "want", nor do I choose to see what you want me to see. I choose to see what appears before me, and to interpret it according to a logical process of deduction.
Frankly, I'm not seeing much logic in your words.

Quote:
It is interesting that you personally blame me for the existence of the word Negro, but you deny any complicity yourself in the abolition of the word from the language.
Now we're getting farther and farther away from reality.......I haven't personally blamed you for anything. Again, I am finding you harder and harder to follow....and I'm about to give up on that altogether.

Quote:

Thanks for giving me credit for a word that has been in the English vocabulary for centuries, all that time agreed upon by both the academic discipline of ethnology and the general common usage to mean "black people sub-Saharan African ancestry". That's not the same as African American. Give us a word.
It's simple. Not all black people in America or the world are African Americans and, other than those from this country who have permanently exiled themselves to settle in Africa, there aren't that many African Americans in Africa.

That's it. I will no longer go around in this pointless circle with you.

Quote:
I used to live in a city that had schools, police, a jail, a hospital and Negroes in it. Now the city has attendance centers, law enforcement officers, a correctional and rehabilitational institution, a health care complex, and African Americans. It's a hell of a way to run a language. And I blame people who insist on makeing up new words that don't work, to replace old ones that did work.
The words might have worked for you, but what worked for you is not relevant. The words need to work for those to whom the word refers, and "Negro" didn't, doesn't and won't work for us. Sorry.

Quote:
Everybody knows what a jail is. Calling it a correctional and rehabilitational institution doesn't make it any different from what it always was. Anybody who's ever been in one knows that it just replaces the truth with a lie. "You can see whatever you want. Doesn't mean you're seeing what is actually happening."
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Yup, and it's driving at least some of them batty...........
Look. Let's say I walk into a room, and Barry Bonds is in there, and Miriam Makeba, and Idi Amin and Nelson Mandela and Bob Marley and Jesse Jackson. They all look at me when I walk in because I'm different. But they all appear to have, and recognize themselves to have, a certain obvious characteristic that makes them different from me. Give me a word for that. African American?

It's on you. I'll call them what you want me to call them, or what they want to be called. If it drives me me batty, it's because you refuse to accept ANY word for what you and all those other people are, to distinguish them from those of us who simply call ourselves white and don't make a fuss about it.

We tried to call you "Colored", once, trying to be as respectful and polite as possible, but you said No, that is a degrading and insulting word, and then you called yourselves "People of Color". Yup. Drives us batty.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-23-2011 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:37 PM
 
1,351 posts, read 2,359,097 times
Reputation: 1219
Race is genetic.

Ethnicity is cultural.

Nationality is your citizenship.

Example:

Race: Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid

Ethnicity: Irish, German, Arab, Chinese, Filipino, Mexican

Nationality: US citizen-American
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,415 posts, read 10,037,563 times
Reputation: 5779
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I used to live in a city that had schools, police, a jail, a hospital and Negroes in it. Now the city has attendance centers, law enforcement officers, a correctional and rehabilitational institution, a health care complex, and African Americans. It's a hell of a way to run a language. And I blame people who insist on makeing up new words that don't work, to replace old ones that did work.
Language is a fluid and ever-changing thing. You don't get to decide when it becomes static. It changes on its own. Just think, when I was a child, we wore thongs everywhere. Now, I don't ... but I do wear flip-flops. We still dial a phone, though there's nothing dial-like about it.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,902,513 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Look. Let's say I walk into a room, and Barry Bonds is in there, and Miriam Makeba, and Idi Amin and Nelson Mandela and Bob Marley and Jesse Jackson. They all look at me when I walk in because I'm different. But they all appear to have, and recognize themselves to have, a certain obvious characteristic that makes them different from me. Give me a word for that. African American?
They're all black folks. Two are African American - Barry Bonds and Jesse Jackson. Miriam Makeba and Madiba (that's what we call him!) are South African, but of different ethnicities, because Makeba was Swazi and Mandela is Xhosa (and Khoisan Bushman). Idi Amin was Ugandan. Bob Marley was Jamaican (and half Scottish).

Their race is black, their nationality and ethnicities are all different. Two are African American. I don't see what is so complicated.
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:11 AM
 
43 posts, read 32,120 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Boy Columbus View Post
Ethinicity and race are different. I am of Afro -american ethnicity, which means my ethnicity contains the traits of all african americans. My race is black meaning I bare characteristics of all those dark people of color. When most people say race most people mean color or pigment you are related to or cultural influence. Even though Indians are black and i say they are black ask them what race they are they would say asian or Indian. But most black americans say I am a part of the black race. And about the term Hispanic, this term is given to anybody who speaks spanish. So this term is neither race nor ethnicity it's a classification. I meant any body who speaks spanish as their mother tongue or spanish is their native tongue.
Correction Native Americans are not black we are red people.
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:30 PM
 
102 posts, read 102,262 times
Reputation: 122
Race is a mythological, human-invented concept that we do not apply to any other species. It has been proved to certainty that all humans are of the same species. We differ greatly in appearance, obviously. Race is a subjective classification based solely on appearance. How dark does someone have to be to be "black"? Depends on who you ask. How many races are there? Depends. Do people conflate race with their own concept of ethnicity...yep. Race is not a meaningful categorization of people.

If ethnicity is culture, then I'm American. Of course, I'm not a Native American, and my ancestry is from elsewhere. If ethnicity is ancestry, then I only know so far back, and how far back am I supposed to go? And do I pick one, two, three, four or more "ethnicities" that I can trace back to? Ethnicity is also subjective and in most cases people don't know what ethnicity they are beyond grandparents. How many times do we hear, "I'm 1/4 this, 1/4 that" and so on? DNA research is blowing those concepts out of the water.

Nationality is easy. Of what nation are you a citizen/subject/serf/comrade of? Nationality is an alterable, political affiliation.
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Old 05-08-2015, 01:44 PM
 
858 posts, read 748,724 times
Reputation: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Look. Let's say I walk into a room, and Barry Bonds is in there, and Miriam Makeba, and Idi Amin and Nelson Mandela and Bob Marley and Jesse Jackson. They all look at me when I walk in because I'm different. But they all appear to have, and recognize themselves to have, a certain obvious characteristic that makes them different from me. Give me a word for that. African American?

It's on you. I'll call them what you want me to call them, or what they want to be called. If it drives me me batty, it's because you refuse to accept ANY word for what you and all those other people are, to distinguish them from those of us who simply call ourselves white and don't make a fuss about it.

We tried to call you "Colored", once, trying to be as respectful and polite as possible, but you said No, that is a degrading and insulting word, and then you called yourselves "People of Color". Yup. Drives us batty.
It's called respect. White people don't find "white" offensive, hence I use the term (as I am white myself). There is a social contract and you can choose to purposely disrespect people or not. You can find or create offensive terms and terms can in fact change. For example gay used to mean happy, now it means homosexual, so guess what I'm not running around calling everyone "gay" to mean happy. It's how culture and language change over time, it's perfectly logical except to people who either:

a) want an excuse to be offensive
b) want an excuse to argue about something

Why might a black person find "negro" offensive, it doesn't take a lot of effort to realize why, since it was previously used by *many* people in a negative way. Historically it has been used as a demeaning term from a "white" person to a "black" person. Hence it's not surprising why some people might find a white person referring to a black person like that now questionable.

Words and language don't exist in a void. They are created and spoken by people to other people hence you *cannot* separate the impact from the usage. Such a thing is ridiculously illogical.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:33 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,585 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
You neglected to point out that Hispanic is not a race, and the government does not ask people to list it as a race. If you want to look at it according to the Census, you can list native American, black, white, Asian, Asian Indian, Pacific Islander, any combination of any of the above, and/or Other Race as your race. Then they ask for Hispanic ethnicity as a separate category; there you either say you are Hispanic or you are not, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RACE IS. Hispanic is not a race. You can be black, Native American or Asian and still be Hispanic.
So I thought it was interesting what you said about Hispanic not being a race. I'm trying to understand the difference between race, ethnicity, and nationality. I always found it odd that people would classify me as Brazilian because my mom is from Brazil rather then black even though I have pretty dark skin. It makes sense to me that where your born and where your family comes from has nothing to do with race. I believe that My race is black because I have dark skin. My ethnicity is as far as I know Brazilian, Cape verdian, Portuguese and Italian because thats where my family came from. And I am American because I was born here in America. Right???...... Any thoughts?
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:27 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,994 posts, read 17,150,498 times
Reputation: 30131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senne93 View Post
So I thought it was interesting what you said about Hispanic not being a race. I'm trying to understand the difference between race, ethnicity, and nationality. I always found it odd that people would classify me as Brazilian because my mom is from Brazil rather then black even though I have pretty dark skin. It makes sense to me that where your born and where your family comes from has nothing to do with race. I believe that My race is black because I have dark skin. My ethnicity is as far as I know Brazilian, Cape verdian, Portuguese and Italian because thats where my family came from. And I am American because I was born here in America. Right???...... Any thoughts?
Ethnicity vs Race - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Race is based upon appearance and can be subjective. Ethnicity is based upon culture, such things as the foods you eat, your heritage's beliefs and folk practices, mode of dress. If you were born in America you're American. For example physical anthropology deals more with race, cultural anthropology deals more with ethnicity. Nationality refers to the country you are a citizen of.

Sometimes these categories can provide some clues as to genealogy but they are only clues, not proof.

Race used tp be black, caucasian, and Asian. Now people are using the terms more loosely, it seems. But still I would never think of Hispanic as a race.
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