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Adding to my previous post, I would guess that prejudice would have been related to religion mostly. Add to that, they tended to drink a lot.
It works both ways though--as a child I remember my Irish Catholic friend telling me that I would go to Hell because I was not Catholic. They acted superior about their religion in many other ways. That's no way to make friends and get ahead.
I had an Irish Catholic boyfriend (guess I wasn't prejudiced--lol) who talked about Lace Curtain Irish and Dirty Irish. Also the huge families that the parents couldn't afford to support.
One thing----to say that the English were the oppressors isn't right--the English GOVERNMENT or aristocracy were the oppressors, not the long suffering ordinary English people. That government seized the land from the ordinary English people and hideous MILLS were built instead. The horrors of life during the Industrial Revolution in England --- that was the life of the ordinary English person.
From my readings I can determine that the Irish were disliked in this country mainly because they were poor. the stories about the coffin ships up in Canada and Grosse Isle made me cry. Many came here with literally nothing, hardly any clothing let alone money or other resources. Many became instant 'burdens" on society. They were seen as undesirables.
Well, time has washed that away. I'm proud to say I'm part Irish---although I don't know how much, aren't we all sort of "mutts?", anyways?
From my readings I can determine that the Irish were disliked in this country mainly because they were poor. the stories about the coffin ships up in Canada and Grosse Isle made me cry. Many came here with literally nothing, hardly any clothing let alone money or other resources. Many became instant 'burdens" on society. They were seen as undesirables.
Well, time has washed that away. I'm proud to say I'm part Irish---although I don't know how much, aren't we all sort of "mutts?", anyways?
Yes, but most immigrants were poor. That's why they came here. It wasn't just the Irish who were poor.
I think part of it was religion and maybe that so many came all at the same time. If you sit and look at the records for immigration, the names are from all parts of (mostly) Europe but the Irish came all at once, in droves, due to the famine. I think the overwhelming number of Irish all at once and their Catholic religion were probably more than people could handle. After a while they got assimilated but it took longer because of the enormous numbers and the different religion.
It's like--people could accept a few Germans, a few Greeks, a few Norwegians, a few English, a few French. Schools and communities could deal with a FEW at a time but the Irish, through no fault of their own, came over in droves.
Yes, but most immigrants were poor. That's why they came here. It wasn't just the Irish who were poor.
I think part of it was religion and maybe that so many came all at the same time. If you sit and look at the records for immigration, the names are from all parts of (mostly) Europe but the Irish came all at once, in droves, due to the famine. I think the overwhelming number of Irish all at once and their Catholic religion were probably more than people could handle. After a while they got assimilated but it took longer because of the enormous numbers and the different religion.
It's like--people could accept a few Germans, a few Greeks, a few Norwegians, a few English, a few French. Schools and communities could deal with a FEW at a time but the Irish, through no fault of their own, came over in droves.
Germans came over in almost the same numbers (shy of one million) during the same years (1845 - 1860) that the Irish did. And they came in multiple family groups, and settled together. Remember that Theodore Roosevelt's quote on assimilation and national loyalty was about the Germans that had settled in Pennsylvania.
They established entire shipping lines and built numbers of ships just to bring Germans here...
I'm primarily from German ancestry, but know there is at least a little Irish...
Germans came over in almost the same numbers (shy of one million) during the same years (1845 - 1860) that the Irish did. And they came in multiple family groups, and settled together. Remember that Theodore Roosevelt's quote on assimilation and national loyalty was about the Germans that had settled in Pennsylvania.
They established entire shipping lines and built numbers of ships just to bring Germans here...
I'm primarily from German ancestry, but know there is at least a little Irish...
Yeah, they had a surname of "Irish"...
Yes, and they settled the entire state of Missouri, lol. But the difference I think is that they weren't starving--or at least not quite so much. The potato famine was a truly horrific event in history. BTW, when I visited Ireland, I never met nicer people anywhere and I hope to go back for another visit this summer--I love everything Irish--the music, the food, the scenery, and of course the Guinness.
Oops and I meant to say that they weren't well liked in Australia either and probably for many of the same reasons--English in charge and too large of numbers of starving poor at some times in history. And like us, I'd imagine that the Aussies have changed their minds about that.
England had the same attitude towards the Scottish people for decades and decades. I guess the early English immigrants who came to America could've easily carried these attitudes across the ocean with them.
Of course, England had a tendency to think ANY culture who didn't dress, eat, sing and worship the way they did were somehow inferior and 'savage'. Perhaps they really felt that way or perhaps they used it as a subconscious excuse to keep them from feeling guilty about taking land that didn't belong to them in the first place.
I watched a really good documentary on Irish immigration to America and they were really treated in complete contempt. I had no idea until I saw that. They had the worst living conditions and took the worst jobs. But time justified them into becoming a favorite in most people's hearts.
You are wrong in your opinion of the English at the time of the famine most English people lived in poverty as bad as the Irish .. working in factories for long hours living in slums with hardly any food to eat. Government of the time and Landowners were to blame. Yes the Irish had it tough but so did many others from all over Europe.
It so happens I was reading a bit about this subject a few months ago.
One of the reasons "native" Americans feared and resented the Irish immigrants was that there were just so many of them arriving.
In regards to the term "native" Americans - this is how the white American population who had lived here for several generations regarded themselves, especially those whose families were here before the Revolution.
According to records kept by the US government, in 1845 51% of all immigrants were Irish. Around 1820 the number was over 40%, so it had been going on for a while. Around 1850 55% of New York City's immigrant population was Irish.
Conditions in Ireland were horrendous, these people arrived often with just the clothes on their backs. One they got to cities like NY, Boston & Philadelphia, they lived in the worst conditions, filthy, overcrowded, no bathing facilities, so of course they looked dirty and ragged and smelled. They had odd accents many Americans couldn't understand.
They settled primarily in the industrial northern cities, but being farm laborers, they lacked the skills to get ahead, and had to find employment as servants or laborers, jobs at the bottom rung of the ladder.
One reason for the many Irish men who became police or firemen was politics. Nineteenth century big city politics was a world of bribery and corruption. A city alderman curried favor with potential voters by handing out baskets of food, or public service jobs. The Irish poor quickly realized the value of being in politics.
As with all immigrant groups, over time, they climbed the economic ladder, and others took their places down at the bottom.
The question of religion too, played a big part in hatred of the Irish. When the Irish arrived, America was predominately Protestant and biased against Catholicism, which some even referred to as "the great *****". No need to mention more on religious prejudices.
---seems I can't use the word they used. Think of the word horse, and leave off the s.
Last edited by 2cold; 02-25-2012 at 05:01 PM..
Reason: word substitution
It so happens I was reading a bit about this subject a few months ago.
One of the reasons "native" Americans feared and resented the Irish immigrants was that there were just so many of them arriving.
In regards to the term "native" Americans - this is how the white American population who had lived here for several generations regarded themselves, especially those whose families were here before the Revolution.
According to records kept by the US government, in 1845 51% of all immigrants were Irish. Around 1820 the number was over 40%, so it had been going on for a while. Around 1850 55% of New York City's immigrant population was Irish.
Conditions in Ireland were horrendous, these people arrived often with just the clothes on their backs. One they got to cities like NY, Boston & Philadelphia, they lived in the worst conditions, filthy, overcrowded, no bathing facilities, so of course they looked dirty and ragged and smelled. They had odd accents many Americans couldn't understand.
They settled primarily in the industrial northern cities, but being farm laborers, they lacked the skills to get ahead, and had to find employment as servants or laborers, jobs at the bottom rung of the ladder.
One reason for the many Irish men who became police or firemen was politics. Nineteenth century big city politics was a world of bribery and corruption. A city alderman curried favor with potential voters by handing out baskets of food, or public service jobs. The Irish poor quickly realized the value of being in politics.
As with all immigrant groups, over time, they climbed the economic ladder, and others took their places down at the bottom.
The question of religion too, played a big part in hatred of the Irish. When the Irish arrived, America was predominately Protestant and biased against Catholicism, which some even referred to as "the great *****". No need to mention more on religious prejudices.
---seems I can't use the word they used. Think of the word horse, and leave off the s.
I'm curious about something. At various points in the family tree, I have Irish immigrants, from the early 1800's to after the civil war. I may have Irish g grandparents on both sides. But my family has been decidedly protestent from early on. I know along with the catholic immigrants, there were protestant ones too. Did people view them as different or were they not exempted from the general reaction simply because they were Irish?
Only one generations stayed in the east, the rest ended up in Iowa/Missouri or Tennessee.
Here follows my decidedly personal opinion/conclusion, based on a rather extensive review of World History from the 15th through the 20th century.
The English viewed any and all non-English (particularly if they were also non-Western-Europe) peoples and cultures as inherently inferior to their own. Regarding the case in point, their treatment of the Irish speaks volumes. Similarly, their treatment of the Scots, Caribbean, American Indian, South African, and India Indian cultures (to name a few) clearly bespeaks their inherent cultural bias.
England contributed the vast majority of the U.S. culture, belief system, values and attitudes. Witness the ("only good Indian is a DEAD Indian") attitude, and that demonstrated to all non-English cultures in the New World.
The "U.S." treatment of the Irish, embodied in the often seen sign "Irish Need Not Apply", pretty well confirms this. I need say no more.
But once again, this is my own personal opinion.
-- Nighteyes (Choctaw Indian, and multi-generational friend to the Irish )
I would think Catholicism was the main reason. The Americans already here did not want the Pope exerting influence in this country as they had seen happen in European history.
The Irish were really poor, I read somewhere (can't remember where) they often were hired to do work that they did not want the slaves to do. Digging canals, etc. where the conditions were really severe (malaria, etc.)
And the Potato famine was an outright holocaust btw... there is already an existing thread on this subject.
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let alone money or other resources. Many became instant 'burdens" on society. They were seen as undesirables.
