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Old 07-03-2013, 05:32 AM
 
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Ireland was settled more than 7.000 years ago by a people that had the I haplogroup. Since there was no writing at that time, they were classed by their artifacts and culture. They were called the Tardenoisian culture, that later became the Megalithic culture, people older that the builders of Stonehenge. Their culture was Atlantic, spanning from Portugal to Normandy.

We certainly don't know what they looked like, the I haplogroup is rather scarce in Western Europe nowdays, but Black Irish could be the residue left after R1b men mated with most original western European women during the Bronze Age.

 
Old 07-05-2013, 07:09 AM
 
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I'm wondering if most of the ''black'' Irish as well as Welsh can easily tan when exposed to the sun since they have exceedingly high rates of R1b (over 80%) ?
 
Old 07-05-2013, 07:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Foot Three View Post
I'm wondering if most of the ''black'' Irish as well as Welsh can easily tan when exposed to the sun since they have exceedingly high rates of R1b (over 80%) ?
R1b is just a y chromosome haplotype that is present in a lot of European countries including Netherlands and Germany. It has nothing to do with tanning abilities. The majority of Irish do not tan well and I'm sure it would be the same for the Welsh. They are both very sunless countries. In fact most Irish that live in Australia are very prone to skin cancer and if they have any sense avoid the sun. There are always exceptions though. My aunt had brown eyes and dark hair and more olive skin all her children were redheads with blue and green eyes. There is no group of people in Ireland exhibiting just dark hair and eyes. There are individual people that have dark hair but they have brothers and sisters that might be fair haired and blue eyed. They are not a separate people. Just like any group of people some are brunets, some are blonds and some are redheads.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 05:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
R1b is just a y chromosome haplotype that is present in a lot of European countries including Netherlands and Germany. It has nothing to do with tanning abilities. The majority of Irish do not tan well and I'm sure it would be the same for the Welsh. They are both very sunless countries. In fact most Irish that live in Australia are very prone to skin cancer and if they have any sense avoid the sun. There are always exceptions though. My aunt had brown eyes and dark hair and more olive skin all her children were redheads with blue and green eyes. There is no group of people in Ireland exhibiting just dark hair and eyes. There are individual people that have dark hair but they have brothers and sisters that might be fair haired and blue eyed. They are not a separate people. Just like any group of people some are brunets, some are blonds and some are redheads.

Yes i understand that haplotype has nada to do with tanning and that many Irish and Welsh do not tan however ... we are talking about the ''black'' irish on here (thread title) who have similar phenotype features similar the Basques of Iberia (i.e. black curly hair, brown eyes) and so since the British Isles are so closely related to Iberia via their male haplogrouping R1b as well as female lineage of H & U again i'm pondering if the ''black'' irish or dark haired/brown eyed Welsh can tan easily and if so then that would give strong indications that it ''probably'' is all do to the Bronze Age Iberians relocating up to the British Isles.


I'm English/British by heritage and three out of my four grandparents are English/British heritage and yet i myself have black curly hair, brown eyes and can tan super easy (black english .lol.) as that must be bacause of the Iberian bloodline that permeates in the ''non Saxon/Viking'' British bloodlines.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 05:10 AM
 
Location: tampa bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
Hundreds or maybe thousands of Spanish soldiers and sailors who washed ashore on Ireland because of a storm after the failure of the Spanish Armada to land on Britain against the English. All of the Spanish men most likely never made it back to Spain and intermarried with Irish women. Mediterranean features mixed in with Northern Celtic features gave Black Irish dominant features of the Spaniards. That's my theory.
This is what I was told by my Black Irish father...
 
Old 07-06-2013, 05:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
Hundreds or maybe thousands of Spanish soldiers and sailors who washed ashore on Ireland because of a storm after the failure of the Spanish Armada to land on Britain against the English. All of the Spanish men most likely never made it back to Spain and intermarried with Irish women. Mediterranean features mixed in with Northern Celtic features gave Black Irish dominant features of the Spaniards. That's my theory.
This link is a pretty detailed article on the fate of Armada ships and survivors on the Irish coast.

Spanish Armada in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 07-06-2013, 06:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Six Foot Three View Post
Yes i understand that haplotype has nada to do with tanning and that many Irish and Welsh do not tan however ... we are talking about the ''black'' irish on here (thread title) who have similar phenotype features similar the Basques of Iberia (i.e. black curly hair, brown eyes) and so since the British Isles are so closely related to Iberia via their male haplogrouping R1b as well as female lineage of H & U again i'm pondering if the ''black'' irish or dark haired/brown eyed Welsh can tan easily and if so then that would give strong indications that it ''probably'' is all do to the Bronze Age Iberians relocating up to the British Isles.


I'm English/British by heritage and three out of my four grandparents are English/British heritage and yet i myself have black curly hair, brown eyes and can tan super easy (black english .lol.) as that must be bacause of the Iberian bloodline that permeates in the ''non Saxon/Viking'' British bloodlines.
There isn't much of a link between the Irish and Spanish. The R1b in Ireland is of a different subclade to most of Spain and the Irish cluster with Northern Europe on autosomal dna. There are people in every European country that have brown eyes and dark hair as I have said there is no such group as Black Irish it is a myth. An Irish person with brown eyes and black hair would still have the same genetics as an Irish person with green eyes and red hair.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Im sure I read of the Nemedian invading Ireland in 3000 BC... they came from Algeria according to historic reports.. the Normans, Vikings and Spanish also came to these shores, so a mix is created over along time..
 
Old 07-06-2013, 07:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Im sure I read of the Nemedian invading Ireland in 3000 BC... they came from Algeria according to historic reports.. the Normans, Vikings and Spanish also came to these shores, so a mix is created over along time..
With genetics studies a lot of these stories can be put to bed. Any strange ancestry in the Irish would be picked up.
 
Old 07-06-2013, 07:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
There isn't much of a link between the Irish and Spanish. The R1b in Ireland is of a different subclade to most of Spain and the Irish cluster with Northern Europe on autosomal dna. There are people in every European country that have brown eyes and dark hair as I have said there is no such group as Black Irish it is a myth. An Irish person with brown eyes and black hair would still have the same genetics as an Irish person with green eyes and red hair.
Of course they wouldn't match now in the present however their subclads i.e. Basque R-M153 (R-P312-2a) & Irish (R-M222 (R-P312-4b) do match up when go far enough back (in time) to their parental subclad R-P312 (R1b1a2a1a1b) and before that M-269 (R1b1a2) which shows the three highest in that subclad as Wales 92%, Basque 87% & Ireland 85%. Yes there are other subclads as well e.g. R-U106 (R1b1a2a1a1a) found mainly around western Germany, Netherlands, and southeastern England although i've not heard of any ''black'' terminology for these people.


As far as ''black'' irish or any other ''black'' british terminology goes i freely plead ignorance to this subject as sadly i've never resided at nor visited the British Isles (motherland) as i'll continue to follow along with interest as to what others have to say about this.
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