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Old 11-06-2012, 07:06 PM
 
Location: 2016 Clown Car...fka: Wisconsin
738 posts, read 993,406 times
Reputation: 1207

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I have seen and/or experienced this myself and do not find it odd at all.

During the 90's, my husband and I owned one of the oldest homes on the outskirts of a small rural town. The property next to us (which had been divided off of the original homestead) had a small, but crowded cemetery that had been abandoned by the church that maintained it for years. The land was eventually sold to a nice couple who built a beautiful home there and thus, took possession of the cemetery. They carefully cleaned and restored the graves and headstones as best they could, then put up a fence with a No Trespassing sign. You see, vandalism had really taken its toll and many headstones had not only been broken, but some graves had been dug up. It had become a hangout for local teens who decided that it was a perfect place to drink and take unsuspecting dates for some "fun." Thankfully, they noted all the burials and cross-checked with parish records from the historical society. They really had no problem allowing people to come and visit the cemetery, they just wanted the vandalism to stop...which it did after they put up a motion detector light.

The second time I experienced this, my husband and I were looking for an old cemetery that was located on private land. We stopped at the house and knocked, but no one answered. We wrote a note and put it into the door explaining who we were and why we were inquiring. Just as we were about to go 'looking' the owner came driving up on his tractor. He allowed us to view the cemetery, but only after taking down our license number...lol.

While living out in Yuma, AZ several years back, we discovered the local Native American cemetery which is not only fenced, it is gated and locked and there is a sign prohibiting photos. One can not even enter the cemetery until permission is granted from the council. Again, I suspect this is to deter vandalism.

I usually do not stop to ask permission to enter a cemetery unless there is a sign specifically stating that I must have permission. I do not find this offensive, nor off-putting as my intentions are good and I am looking for historical evidence only. I have never had a sincere request turned down...but then again, I'm a 5', gray-haired, little old lady...

RVcook
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Little Rock AR USA
2,457 posts, read 7,343,330 times
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RVcook, I do archeology work and often work with a couple of Indian Nations. The reason for the fence and locks is because that is Sacred Ground and no one can tread upon it without special ceremony. Or at least that is what I have learned from the people I have worked with. And as you wrote; To protect them from looters. I could tell you lots of horror stories about what looters do to Indian graves and have seen investigator's photos of the desecration.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: 2016 Clown Car...fka: Wisconsin
738 posts, read 993,406 times
Reputation: 1207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasSlim View Post
RVcook, I do archeology work and often work with a couple of Indian Nations. The reason for the fence and locks is because that is Sacred Ground and no one can tread upon it without special ceremony. Or at least that is what I have learned from the people I have worked with. And as you wrote; To protect them from looters. I could tell you lots of horror stories about what looters do to Indian graves and have seen investigator's photos of the desecration.
Oh absolutely! I neglected to add the 'sacred ground' to my post......but certainly, looters are the single biggest threat to cemeteries. I have no doubt that there are many, many horrific stories about grave desecration which can be attributed to 'ignorance'. In my travels around the US, I am appalled at the lack of concern for cemeteries that suffer from neglect and at times, I am so saddened to see piles of broken gravestones that I actually break down and cry and say to myself..."why would anyone do this intentionally? This was a mother...a father...a child who was mourned for a lifetime."

It literally 'pains' me...

RVcook
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,299 posts, read 4,827,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVcook View Post
...I have no doubt that there are many, many horrific stories about grave desecration which can be attributed to 'ignorance'. In my travels around the US, I am appalled at the lack of concern for cemeteries that suffer from neglect and at times, I am so saddened to see piles of broken gravestones that I actually break down and cry and say to myself..."why would anyone do this intentionally? This was a mother...a father...a child who was mourned for a lifetime."

It literally 'pains' me...
There was an incident that a news crew filmed in Croatia (probably about 15 years ago) where vandals from one side knocked down a neighboring town's headstones in their cemetery. A U.S. Army peacekeeper that was present commented (paraphrased) "That's a lot of hate, when something like this happens.". I wonder why, when we don't have the ideology, political, or religious differences anywhere near that level in adjoining towns, it happens a little bit here.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: 2016 Clown Car...fka: Wisconsin
738 posts, read 993,406 times
Reputation: 1207
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
... I wonder why, when we don't have the ideology, political, or religious differences anywhere near that level in adjoining towns, it happens a little bit here.
I can't speak to motive (it obviously affects me on a cellular level), but I think that type of behavior speaks volumes about how 'respect' in general has eroded.

Generations that came before us, trusted that subsequent generations would always remember. One can only assume that is the reason that names and dates were 'carved in stone'.

RVcook
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
4,966 posts, read 6,228,163 times
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Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis, the third largest non-goverment cemetery in the US, not only allows photography, they have annual photography contests with amateur and professional photographers that compete with each other with pictures they took in the cemetery, including of graves and monuments. Obviously, you are not allowed to photograph mourners or funeral services. And you're not allowed to photograph when the cemetery is closed (such as at night). Maybe it helps that some famous people are buried there that people may want pictures of, like John Dillinger, Eli Lily, President Benjamin Harrison, to name a few.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,413 posts, read 12,088,268 times
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In most cemeteries, the plot where the burial was made is the property of the family. As is the tombstone. They do not belong to the cemetery.

I've been told this (I haven't looked at the law itself) in relation to graveyard vandalism. Because all the stones are all considered to be individually owned, the total value of destruction isn't counted ... and so the crime charged is usually a misdemeanor.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:22 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,032 times
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Default legality of photos in cemeteries

Cemeteries and headstones are public record in most states, just
as obituaries are.
Unless the cemetery is on private, locked land, photos are permitted.

Look it up in each state.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,413 posts, read 12,088,268 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZitalia View Post
Cemeteries and headstones are public record in most states, just
as obituaries are.
Unless the cemetery is on private, locked land, photos are permitted.

Look it up in each state.
Obituaries are not "public record," but are protected by copyright just as anything else is. The facts contained in the obituary are not copyrighted, but the way the obituary is written certainly is.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:39 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 36,995,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Pipes View Post
These old grave yards are owned by somebody somewhere. If not the county owns them in default. So if it's info you seek on an old grave yard the county seat is where go.
lol. I'm always hearing "go to the county seat, they'll have records". Not always. Not only do I have relatives buried in old grave yards that aren't in official records I have relatives whose births weren't recorded in the county seat. And they were born in the 1920's. (We went and looked at the hand written records in the big stone building. And pointed out to the people working in the big stone building that they were missing three years. No one had ever noticed. Hand written in the book. Three years skipped and not a line or page missing. Stopped at 1921 and picked up again in 1924. I guess someone got tired or sick. Or died.)

I, for one, am grateful to the people who go out and photograph the old (and not so old) grave markers. I've been able to see many of family members that I could never hope to see in person. To all who do it: Thanks!
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