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Old 04-19-2017, 11:15 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
Reputation: 2377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
What is...
Most interestingly, the book says that the group which then came to Ireland and fully established itself as rulers of the island were the Milesians - the sons of Mil, the soldier from Spain. Modern DNA research has actually confirmed that the Irish are close genetic relatives of the people of northern Spain.

While it might seem strange that Ireland was populated from Spain rather than Britain or France, it is worth remembering that in ancient times the sea was one of the fastest and easiest ways to travel. When the land was covered in thick forest, coastal settlements were common and people travelled around the seaboard of Europe quite freely. https://www.sott.net/article/263587-...iously-thought
Actually dizzybint that Blog is posting a lot of outdated information and it was mostly just done on ydna and a very few markers at that. It is old and discredited because R1b is actually from the Pontic-Caspian Steppes and wasn't around to repopulate Europe. It only dates from the Bronze Age. The Milesian stuff was invented by medieval Irish monks to give the Irish a foundation myth much like the Jews in the Bible. It's not based on fact. (It's basically made up).


Irish are genetically closest to West Scots which is not too surprising. After that they are closest to other British people and then Dutch (Benelux area), Northern French (e.g. Bretons and Normans) and Scandinavia. Not really close to Spain or even South West French at all. Irish are closer to Germans, Austrians, East Germans even before any Spanish area so not too close at all.


This is using Eurogenes K15 (myself) and K15 (brother). I have loads of other Irish Gedmatch results and they all are very similar. The pops with the closest distance (eg smaller numbers) are the closest. My closest pop is No 1 Irish and No 2 West Scots. My brother actually comes out closest to Orcadian as his No 1 pop on the K15. It lists the closest populations from 1 to 20 in descending order. Using different calculators we get slightly different results but like all Irish people the populations closest are other Northern Europeans and this corresponds with genetic studies done on the Irish as well.

My Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):


#PopulationPercent
1 North_Sea 37.04
2 Atlantic 29.88
3 Baltic11.89
4 Eastern_Euro 8.75
5 West_Asian 5.16
6 West_Med 4.95
7 Amerindian 1.15
8 Red_Sea 1.10

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.425280
2 West_Scottish @ 3.557808
3 North_Dutch @ 4.181393
4 Danish @ 4.453959
5 Orcadian @ 5.505360
6 Southeast_English @ 5.676529
7 North_German @ 5.882824
8 Southwest_English @ 7.466283
9 Norwegian @ 8.417722
10 West_Norwegian @ 8.735489
11 Swedish @ 9.296607
12 South_Dutch @ 11.184519
13 West_German @ 12.499153
14 North_Swedish @ 12.662151
15 East_German @ 16.492691
16 French @ 16.524723
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 17.903034
18 Austrian @ 21.142027
19 Finnish @ 21.647963
20 Hungarian @ 21.914810

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% North_Dutch @ 3.203073


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% North_Dutch +25% West_Scottish @ 3.143203


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.125094
2 North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.128713
3 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.143203
4 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 3.144938
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 3.150105
6 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.159487
7 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.182833
8 North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.183386
9 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.193700
10 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.195021
11 North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.202463
12 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 3.203073
13 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 3.235043
14 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.235556
15 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.238354
16 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.248949
17 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 3.252259
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Swedish @ 3.254036
19 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian @ 3.259177
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 3.268316




Eurogenes K15 (brother's result)


Admix Results (sorted):


#PopulationPercent

1 North_Sea 38.02
2 Atlantic28.50
3 Eastern_Euro9.98
4 Baltic 9.12
5 West_Med7.56
6 West_Asian5.23

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 3.213047
2 West_Scottish @ 3.800461
3 North_Dutch @ 4.402150
4 Danish @ 4.449411
5 Irish @ 4.582540
6 Southeast_English @ 4.794890
7 Southwest_English @ 5.671537
8 North_German @ 7.275247
9 Norwegian @ 7.684995
10 West_Norwegian @ 7.760220
11 Swedish @ 9.670259
12 South_Dutch @ 10.405709
13 West_German @ 10.965762
14 North_Swedish @ 12.858974
15 French @ 15.257990
16 East_German @ 16.842857
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.094088
18 Austrian @ 21.992764
19 Hungarian @ 22.408499
20 Finnish @ 22.635736

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% Orcadian @ 2.700008


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Orcadian +25% Orcadian @ 2.700008


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.468943
2 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.606963
3 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.664194
4 Danish + Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.700008
5 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.719922
6 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.725399
7 Danish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.767285
8 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.777022
9 Danish + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.791629
10 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.816727
11 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.820725
12 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.830852
13 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.836830
14 Danish + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.876363
15 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.906238
16 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.906962
17 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.914979
18 North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.926702
19 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.933666
20 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.943340

Last edited by Bernie20; 04-19-2017 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:14 AM
 
590 posts, read 351,867 times
Reputation: 586
"black Irish" just means a Irish person with dark hair and dark eyes, since the perception is all Irish people have red hair and freckles.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Forest bathing
1,133 posts, read 673,059 times
Reputation: 2638
My husband is Irish and English. His hair was black before it turned white. His mustache had some red in it. Both his parents were dark haired. He has green eyes. His mom had blue and his dad had green. His two sisters have blue eyes. Striking family.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:06 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
12,921 posts, read 6,467,168 times
Reputation: 4465
Just a term for a darker Irish phenotype. It's a bit silly because this sort of phenotype is hardly limited to the Irish when it comes to Northern Europeans.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,277,029 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Just a term for a darker Irish phenotype. It's a bit silly because this sort of phenotype is hardly limited to the Irish when it comes to Northern Europeans.
Exactly, aren't many Welsh people also darker when it comes to hair and eyes?
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Old 04-29-2017, 04:28 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 658,497 times
Reputation: 990
I did read that the Spanish who were washed ashore in Ireland were readily slaughtered by both Lord Bingham, an Elizabethan loyalist, but also the Irish clans who would behead the survivors without mercy. There was no Catholic loyalty there. Very few Spanish bloodlines would have survived. All black haired, brown eyed Irish would be Irish.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:09 AM
 
9,454 posts, read 15,015,271 times
Reputation: 15406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Actually dizzybint that Blog is posting a lot of outdated information and it was mostly just done on ydna and a very few markers at that. It is old and discredited because R1b is actually from the Pontic-Caspian Steppes and wasn't around to repopulate Europe. It only dates from the Bronze Age. The Milesian stuff was invented by medieval Irish monks to give the Irish a foundation myth much like the Jews in the Bible. It's not based on fact. (It's basically made up).


Irish are genetically closest to West Scots which is not too surprising. After that they are closest to other British people and then Dutch (Benelux area), Northern French (e.g. Bretons and Normans) and Scandinavia. Not really close to Spain or even South West French at all. Irish are closer to Germans, Austrians, East Germans even before any Spanish area so not too close at all.


This is using Eurogenes K15 (myself) and K15 (brother). I have loads of other Irish Gedmatch results and they all are very similar. The pops with the closest distance (eg smaller numbers) are the closest. My closest pop is No 1 Irish and No 2 West Scots. My brother actually comes out closest to Orcadian as his No 1 pop on the K15. It lists the closest populations from 1 to 20 in descending order. Using different calculators we get slightly different results but like all Irish people the populations closest are other Northern Europeans and this corresponds with genetic studies done on the Irish as well.

My Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):


#PopulationPercent
1 North_Sea 37.04
2 Atlantic 29.88
3 Baltic11.89
4 Eastern_Euro 8.75
5 West_Asian 5.16
6 West_Med 4.95
7 Amerindian 1.15
8 Red_Sea 1.10

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.425280
2 West_Scottish @ 3.557808
3 North_Dutch @ 4.181393
4 Danish @ 4.453959
5 Orcadian @ 5.505360
6 Southeast_English @ 5.676529
7 North_German @ 5.882824
8 Southwest_English @ 7.466283
9 Norwegian @ 8.417722
10 West_Norwegian @ 8.735489
11 Swedish @ 9.296607
12 South_Dutch @ 11.184519
13 West_German @ 12.499153
14 North_Swedish @ 12.662151
15 East_German @ 16.492691
16 French @ 16.524723
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 17.903034
18 Austrian @ 21.142027
19 Finnish @ 21.647963
20 Hungarian @ 21.914810

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% North_Dutch @ 3.203073


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% North_Dutch +25% West_Scottish @ 3.143203


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.125094
2 North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.128713
3 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.143203
4 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 3.144938
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 3.150105
6 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 3.159487
7 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.182833
8 North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.183386
9 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.193700
10 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.195021
11 North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.202463
12 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 3.203073
13 Danish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 3.235043
14 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.235556
15 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.238354
16 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.248949
17 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 3.252259
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Swedish @ 3.254036
19 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian @ 3.259177
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 3.268316




Eurogenes K15 (brother's result)


Admix Results (sorted):


#PopulationPercent

1 North_Sea 38.02
2 Atlantic28.50
3 Eastern_Euro9.98
4 Baltic 9.12
5 West_Med7.56
6 West_Asian5.23

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 3.213047
2 West_Scottish @ 3.800461
3 North_Dutch @ 4.402150
4 Danish @ 4.449411
5 Irish @ 4.582540
6 Southeast_English @ 4.794890
7 Southwest_English @ 5.671537
8 North_German @ 7.275247
9 Norwegian @ 7.684995
10 West_Norwegian @ 7.760220
11 Swedish @ 9.670259
12 South_Dutch @ 10.405709
13 West_German @ 10.965762
14 North_Swedish @ 12.858974
15 French @ 15.257990
16 East_German @ 16.842857
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.094088
18 Austrian @ 21.992764
19 Hungarian @ 22.408499
20 Finnish @ 22.635736

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% Orcadian @ 2.700008


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Orcadian +25% Orcadian @ 2.700008


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.468943
2 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.606963
3 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.664194
4 Danish + Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.700008
5 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.719922
6 Danish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.725399
7 Danish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.767285
8 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.777022
9 Danish + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.791629
10 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.816727
11 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.820725
12 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.830852
13 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.836830
14 Danish + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.876363
15 Irish + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.906238
16 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 2.906962
17 North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.914979
18 North_Dutch + North_German + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.926702
19 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.933666
20 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.943340
So, how long did it take to type all this
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:50 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
So, how long did it take to type all this
Just a copy and paste from Gedmatch. You upload your dna and they have calculators on there that match your dna to certain populations. It's great fun.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Groznia
205 posts, read 119,716 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
I know what they look like but why are they dark? I have heard that it was invasions from Spain, but my research says that has not been proven.

Any thoughts?
Unless you factor in the "black" slave trade that was in Ireland and England...the term "black Irish" is grossly and ignorantly misinterpreted..."black Irish" was another system of classification between the Catholics and Protestants...Protestants could label a Catholic Irishman "black" whether his genetic features were fair or dark and essentially ban that person from civil politics, participation in community activities (like swimming at the community pool) and even putting him/her into a battle zone by a process of attrition (hence the ambiguous inference of EXISTING in a BLACK i.e., dark or obscure day to day life)...I know that salacious American political chicanery likes to associate "black" with "duh Black Man" meaning dark genetic features but that is just not the case...this was a system of political classification that could have affected any Catholic Irishman
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:21 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,664 posts, read 64,111,757 times
Reputation: 68425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Actually dizzybint that Blog is posting a lot of outdated information and it was mostly just done on ydna and a very few markers at that. It is old and discredited because R1b is actually from the Pontic-Caspian Steppes and wasn't around to repopulate Europe.
Slight digression; I've noticed just lately these statements that R1b is from the Pontic Steppes, but all the info I've ever come across in my research on Indo-Euro origins has said that R1a came from the Pontic Steppes, and R1b migrated to the area from the south, across the Caucasus, and blended into R1a before the population moved east. Why are people now saying R1b is from the Pontic area?
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