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Old 01-29-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,250,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminnm View Post
This is the standard method for measuring generations. My grandparents emigrated to the US a century ago. My dad was born here and is considered a first generation American.
No, your father would be considered a second generation American by demographers and social scientists. You would be a third. If you have a different standard of usage that's your prerogative.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:19 AM
 
Location: 5,400 feet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
No, your father would be considered a second generation American by demographers and social scientists. You would be a third. If you have a different standard of usage that's your prerogative.
Maybe, maybe not. That's why I said the standard rule is first born here is first generation American. The first born here is definitely an American citizen and folks generally understand that.

An immigrant may or may not be an American citizen. If an immigrant becomes a citizen, then s/he is arguably a first generation American. If the immigrant does not become a citizen, then s/he remains a citizen of the country from which they came and is not an American (and cannot be a first generation American).
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,220 posts, read 12,805,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
No, your father would be considered a second generation American by demographers and social scientists. You would be a third. If you have a different standard of usage that's your prerogative.
Do you have a source for that? Because everything I've read suggests it's actually both. It really just depends on the context it's used in.

Immigrant generations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term first-generation, as it pertains to a person's nationality or residency in a country, can imply two possible meanings, depending on context:
- A foreign born citizen or resident who has immigrated and been naturalized in a new country of residence.
- A naturally born citizen or resident of a country whose parents obey the previous definition, or

This ambiguity is captured and corroborated in The Oxford English Dictionary's definition of "generation":

...designating a member of the first (or second, etc.) generation of a family to do something or live somewhere; spec. designating a naturalized immigrant or a descendant of immigrant parents, esp. in the United States.... (OED definition of "generation," section 6b., emphasis added)b

In the United States, among demographers and other social scientists, the term "first generation" is used to refer to foreign-born residents (excluding those born abroad of U.S. parents).[1]

There is not a universal consensus on which of these meanings is always implied.

First generation | Define First generation at Dictionary.com

first-gen·er·a·tion [furst-jen-uh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA
adjective
1.
being the first generation of a family to be born in a particular country.
2.
being a naturalized citizen of a particular country; immigrant: the child of first-generation Americans.

First generation - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Definition of FIRST-GENERATION

1
: born in the U.S. —used of an American of immigrant parentage
2
: foreign-born —used of a naturalized American
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,250,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
In the United States, among demographers and other social scientists, the term "first generation" is used to refer to foreign-born residents (excluding those born abroad of U.S. parents).[1]
Isn't that exactly as I said? His grandparent was a foreign born U.S. resident, thus first generation. His son was second generation. His son, the OP is third.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Isn't that exactly as I said? His grandparent was a foreign born U.S. resident, thus first generation. His son was second generation. His son, the OP is third.
Fair enough - but my point was that demographers and social scientists aren't the be all and end all of the definition. Since I am NOT a demographer or social scientist and I don't think any of us here are, it CAN be used both ways.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:33 AM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,094 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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I'd say 1st generation is 1st born in the new country.

This makes me 2nd generation on my dad's dad's side and 10th on my mom's dad's side.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,496 posts, read 26,089,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
I'd say 1st generation is 1st born in the new country.

This makes me 2nd generation on my dad's dad's side and 10th on my mom's dad's side.
You may choose to look at it that way, but there is no standard definition. To avoid ambiguity, you need to tell us which definition you are using, otherwise the reader may infer something you did not mean. So you need to say that you are the second generation born in the US on your father's side and the tenth born in the US on your mother's.

In genealogical histories, you will often find that the story identifies specifically the immigrant, who is then the first generation in the pedigree.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:12 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,094 posts, read 22,780,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You may choose to look at it that way, but there is no standard definition. To avoid ambiguity, you need to tell us which definition you are using, otherwise the reader may infer something you did not mean. So you need to say that you are the second generation born in the US on your father's side and the tenth born in the US on your mother's.

In genealogical histories, you will often find that the story identifies specifically the immigrant, who is then the first generation in the pedigree.
I've told you which definition I'm using. The point is that YMMV depending on what part of the family tree is looked at.

(PS to all interested parties: If you want the forum to be about genealogy, participate in the genealogy threads.)

Last edited by bjh; 06-23-2013 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
971 posts, read 1,133,578 times
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[quote=bjh;30153820]I'm making the point that YMMV depending on what part of the family tree is looked at.

I have only gotten back to the 1830's on my moms side. 1630's on my dads side so I am the 12th generation, my son is 13th and his sons are 14th generation to be born in the USA.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,415 posts, read 10,037,563 times
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I think to dismiss those immigrant parents as not being "of" their new home is doing them a great disservice. Whether they completed the naturalization process or not, they were residents of their new location. So they are the first generation.

I would differentiate the two by calling the first generation to be born in the new location, the "first native-born generation."

An interesting side-note (or maybe not ... who knows). When genealogical programs were entering a new "era," one of the things that they wanted to do was to make sure their programs were all interchangable. So a group of programmers all got together to coordinate their efforts. When they did that, they quickly learned that there wasn't a good "lexicon" for genealogy, so they spent the first year or two just doing that, just to make sure they were all talking about the same thing.

So I guess it's not just us that have trouble agreeing with terminology definitions.
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