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Old 02-15-2013, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,701,155 times
Reputation: 11465

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I don't understand the idea of being particularly proud of or ashamed of ancestors - particularly people that lived and died long before you were born. You don't get to pick your ancestors. You can't affect what they did. (unless you are in a Terminator movie).

If I found out that I was related to say William Wallace, while I would be on one level proud of that, on another level I would feel like I should have made more of myself in life.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
3,134 posts, read 3,954,362 times
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I love it! One hears about the Liberal Elites, and the reasons for their insane hatred of other white people. But I've never heard about it from the inside.

Liberalism is an outgrowth of Narcissism. The Narcissist loves to hurt others and to be better than others. But he also loves to be the hero. He may even have a Messiah Complex.

What better way to play the hero and hurt others at the same time, than to be a Liberal, supporting a politician with wildly messianic speech, intent upon destroying America? And if that politician is focused upon destroying the Narcissist's competition (in this case, other white people), then so much the better!

The English Elites hate their own countrymen, too. That's why they're importing criminals from all over the globe: something which is clearly destructive to the lives and futures of the ordinary Englishman.

American Elites, confident in their ability to insulate themselves from crime, through living in expensive enclaves and sending their children to private schools, love destroying the lives of ordinary Americans. After all, those elites won't be having their children bused across town, or bullied by 'minorities' to the point of suicide. When ordinary Americans object to having their communities ripped apart, the Elite liberals can smirk and laugh and call those people 'racists'. Meanwhile the list of leading liberal anti-racists who live in lily-white places is astonishingly long. Michael Moore, if I remember correctly, lives in about the whitest place left on the planet... The locals on Michigan's Upper Peninsula aren't just white, they're mostly undiluted Germans and Scandinavians. What a hypocrite he is.

"Diversity for thee, but not for me." Hurting others, while pretending to do good. A theme as old as the history of mankind, unfortunately. Narcissists can be astonishingly hypocritical, since their personality disorder allows extreme levels of self-deception.

You might mention to your father that most white Southerners are descended from white slaves. Look into the Highland Clearances. My guess is that he cleaves to liberal beliefs, because they allow him to feel better than other Southerners. Feeling better than other people is his root motivation. So, acknowledging that he has married a commoner... and that his offspring are thus 'inferior' is something which tarnishes his narcissistic self-image.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:17 PM
 
774 posts, read 1,340,241 times
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Perhaps he is embarrassed to think he has black ancestors because he assumes they were products of the evils of slavery (white guy rapes his black slave girl---> half black/half white kids result and they marry people like them and so on and eventually the "black" is "diluted" to the point that their progeny end up "white" looking).
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:51 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,074,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
I think it's likely that a lot of blacks in the Americas have some white ancestry, for the unfortunately obvious reasons. It's far less likely that whites have black ancestry, since if any white woman gave birth to a baby with negroid features, they'd probably both have "died in childbirth".
I think you will find that the latter assumption about "died in childbirth" doesn't seem to be true based on records from the American colonial era and on into the Revolutionary War. Children received the status of their mother regardless of her color or that the children. The children of a white indentured servant would end up being indentured themselves (regardless of color) and the woman would have her indenture lengthened as a penalty for having become pregnant during her indentureship....even though should would have produced more grist of the indentureship mill.

If free, the woman's mixed race child would have become part of the the free black population, unless they were white enough to "pass", in which case they could remove themselves to a new location and begin life again as white. This did not mean, of course, that there were not penalities for a white woman having had a relationship with a black man.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:32 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
Reputation: 10446
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
It's far less likely that whites have black ancestry, since if any white woman gave birth to a baby with negroid features, they'd probably both have "died in childbirth".
I think that's a pretty wild assumption to make. Do you have any sources to back it up?

Whites with black ancestry do not necessarily have to be descended from a free white woman who gave birth to a half black baby. Thomas Jefferson had a long term relationship with his slave Sally Hemings who was only 1/4 black. This means her children with Jefferson were only 1/8 black and although born slaves, they were legally considered white. After gaining their freedom, most of them lived their lives as white people, as did all of their descendants.

This is only well documented because it's Thomas Jefferson - there very well could have been many other people in situations just like this.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,131 posts, read 26,246,015 times
Reputation: 6815
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Thomas Jefferson had a long term relationship with his slave Sally Hemings who was only 1/4 black. This means her children with Jefferson were only 1/8 black and although born slaves, they were legally considered white. After gaining their freedom, most of them lived their lives as white people, as did all of their descendants.
Are you sure? I'm pretty certain the one drop rule would have applied, particularly since they were in VA. If you were any percentage black you weren't considered white. Whites wouldn't have been slaves and I'm guessing after they gained their freedom they'd have been considered freedmen, but not white.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:33 PM
 
4,104 posts, read 3,444,432 times
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Madison Hemings was identified as Mulatto on 1850, 1860, & 1870 Ohio census records. On the 1870 census the census taker noted this is Thomas Jeffetson's son.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,479 posts, read 26,078,274 times
Reputation: 26426
An interesting commentary on the black/white color line in the US and how some crossed it. The first 100 pages or so are readable at the linked site.

Legal History of the Color Line: The Rise and Triumph of the One-Drop Rule - Frank W. Sweet - Google Books

It includes some of the genetics and the sociological factors that resulted in the division between black and white.

The "one drop rule" resulted in "white slaves":

'White' Slave Children Of New Orleans Used In Donation Campaigns In 1860s (PHOTOS)
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:39 AM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,413 posts, read 18,272,289 times
Reputation: 18588
I am Black and according to some of the older relatives on both my mother's and father's side their are members of the family who chose to "pass", move to cities in the North and disappear into the White world. It happened all of the time. They married White partners and raised White families.

Fading To White | American History Lives at American Heritage

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/bo...anted=all&_r=0

Passing: How posing as white became a choice for many black Americans
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,518,037 times
Reputation: 25856
To the OP: It sounds to me like he is an elitist. He must have had romantic hopes that his early-American background of ancestors played a prominent role in his background's early settlement. Unfortunately, few early settlers were of "regal" background. Sounds like he isn't going to change his feelings at this point. I know that a lot of Americans are feeling guilty and embarrassed over ancestral history that they don't like, but I don't agree with that line of thinking.

You may still find a DNA for yourself interesting, though.
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