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Old 10-23-2013, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,810,680 times
Reputation: 40166

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The entire concept of being 'embarrassed' by ones ancestors is silly.

First:
It is no reflection on me as to who my ancestors might have been. I had/have absolutely no control over who they were or what they did.

Second:
We all have countless ancestors who are absolutely terrible human beings. Simple math (2 ancestors per generation, 3-4 generations per century, let's say ten centuries - ie, 2 to the 35th power, or millions of ancestors since roughly the year 1000 AD, even assuming massive ancestral reduncancy) tells us this. We all have many ancestors who were vile persons - sadists, murderers, rapists, the worst of the worst. The mere fact that most of them, and what they did, are lost to history doesn't change that reality.

While it may be more pleasing to someone if one of their 64 great-great-great-great-great grandfathers was, for example, George Washington rather than Benedict Arnold (or, say, some anonymous 18th-century serial killer lost to time), that ancestry tells us absolutely nothing about that person. Nothing at all. The whole idea is absurd.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,894,826 times
Reputation: 101078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
Well, the main thing I detect is his disdain for the idea of any connection to Africa. As a black person, this appears racist by his negative recation no matter how many Obamas, especially black ones, he may claim to love. Being uninformed about people of a certain race with preconceived notions about them may not always be negative.
But if that same lack of enlightenment convolutes into bad imressions or unkind behavior, then I define it as racist.

But then many times, non ethnic people are so out of touch with we darker people, that they have no knowlege or sometimes no interest in what may be offensive to us. In a one dimensional environment, we concern ourselves only with issues that relate to people within that environment who resemble ourselves most. This is how white America has operated for many centuries. All 'others' were/are irrelevant.
It's not just "white America" that has operated that way. Think of the history of Europe, the British Empire, Ghengis Khan, the Ottoman Empire, the Roman Empire, etc. It's human nature. Not that that makes it right, but it does make it a bit more understandable to put it in context.

By the way, it was an eye opener to my very Nordic husband (23andme DNA says he's overwhelmingly of Nordic/"Viking" extraction), that he is 1.1 percent African. And not northern Africa - subSaharan Africa. "Darkest Africa" figuratively. This didn't distress him at all - he and I thought it was very interesting, and surprising, considering his very Nordic looks.

Hitler would have had a heyday with all this genetic stuff.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
2,440 posts, read 3,430,789 times
Reputation: 2629
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
It's not just "white America" that has operated that way. Think of the history of Europe, the British Empire, Ghengis Khan, the Ottoman Empire, the Roman Empire, etc. It's human nature. Not that that makes it right, but it does make it a bit more understandable to put it in context.

By the way, it was an eye opener to my very Nordic husband (23andme DNA says he's overwhelmingly of Nordic/"Viking" extraction), that he is 1.1 percent African. And not northern Africa - subSaharan Africa. "Darkest Africa" figuratively. This didn't distress him at all - he and I thought it was very interesting, and surprising, considering his very Nordic looks. Hitler would have had a heyday with all this genetic stuff.
I dont remember specifying that America had that market cornered. But since I have only lived in the U.S; I do agree and respect your point. Thank you
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,894,826 times
Reputation: 101078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
The entire concept of being 'embarrassed' by ones ancestors is silly.

First:
It is no reflection on me as to who my ancestors might have been. I had/have absolutely no control over who they were or what they did.

Second:
We all have countless ancestors who are absolutely terrible human beings. Simple math (2 ancestors per generation, 3-4 generations per century, let's say ten centuries - ie, 2 to the 35th power, or millions of ancestors since roughly the year 1000 AD, even assuming massive ancestral reduncancy) tells us this. We all have many ancestors who were vile persons - sadists, murderers, rapists, the worst of the worst. The mere fact that most of them, and what they did, are lost to history doesn't change that reality.

While it may be more pleasing to someone if one of their 64 great-great-great-great-great grandfathers was, for example, George Washington rather than Benedict Arnold (or, say, some anonymous 18th-century serial killer lost to time), that ancestry tells us absolutely nothing about that person. Nothing at all. The whole idea is absurd.
I agree.

I have ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary war - on both sides. Same with the Civil War. I am related to Jesse James. Heck, my own grandfather (the one the Jesse James connection is through) was a pretty awful person, who abandoned my grandmother and my mother and who got drunk and fell off a pier in I think Florida and drowned at age 33. Pretty stupid.

I have some great and interesting and even heroic people in my bloodline (most of whom weren't famous at all, but who were just hard working, brave, strong people) but believe me, we have our share of scoundrels and "black hearts" in our family tree. Everyone does.

My family is very patriotic and has a long history of military service. Also, several branches came over in the 1600s so some of our ancestors were very prominent during the early years of our nation. It was a shock to my father to find family records of ancestors who were British loyalists. Plus, he had this idea that the slave owners in our family were so magnanimous and kind hearted to their slaves...but you just can't justify the notation in a book that says, "Jeremiah, mulatto, age 8. Status - slave for life." Damn. No justification for that whatsoever as far as I'm concerned.

One of my great great great grandfathers inherited the family plantation when both parents died in some sort of epidemic. He was in his twenties and he asked his aunt if she would send his girl cousin, who was fourteen at the time, to live there to "help manage the household." Well, you can imagine what happened - he got her pregnant and they were literally run out of town. They didn't stop running (from Alabama) till they reached Arkansas, which was the wild west back then. She had a tragic life and died in childbirth shortly afterwards. So eventually he remarried and that is the line I'm from. Anyway, he built up a very successful working farm/furniture factory/sawmill/cotton mill etc and sharecropped the land and became a wealthy landowner, but talk about shameful beginnings!

One of my ancestors rode with Captain Cook on the ship Resolution. In fact, an island they discovered is named after him (Willis Island). You'd think that was cool. However, the only notation about him in the captain's log is "Thomas Willis - wild and drinking."

Yeah...maybe I did get some of those genes after all...

Seriously though - I do think that many personality traits are inherited. However, personality doesn't equal character. Character is a choice, while personality itself isn't. For instance, we may have a predisposition to alcoholism, but that doesn't mean we're doomed to be an alcoholic.

One thing that IS really interesting to me though, is how misunderstood mental illness has been over the ages. It's been seen as a character flaw, demon possession, witchcraft, etc. Now we know that much of that is truly inherited. On my mother's side, it was called the "Hawkins blood." It's the artsy, weird, avant garde strain that has always been prone to "nervous breakdowns." This strain is very pronounced, affecting at least one sibling out of each family - so you can imagine how interesting family reunions have been over the decades. Come to find out - it's schizophrenia, which is largely genetic. Out of my mother's family, she has one sister, at least two nieces/nephews, one aunt, and several great aunts, her own mother, and now my brother who have struggled with mental illness. Now that there are better tools to diagnose, we realize that the ones who are now alive have schizophrenia, and I would bet that those who have already died had the same thing.

Back in the day, they would have been confined, or even put to death for witchcraft, or determined to be demon possessed. Now they can be treated with meds and can live a somewhat normal life. All these decades of being classified as weird, crazy, lazy, irresponsible, bizarre, etc - now we realize it was never their character that was the issue. It was a physical cause. I mean, I think the family always sort of knew this, hence the term "Hawkins blood," but now it's undeniably a physical cause.
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