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Old 05-28-2013, 09:07 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,366,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
...
Any good genealogical program today will allow you to connect all kinds of people to your ancestors records. They won't show them as a blood line - as that would be incorrect. But they will show them as A PART OF YOUR ANCESTOR'S LIFE.
...
I agree thinkalot's definition of Genealogy is somewhat constructionist. I think including information because the software allows it isn't a good justification.

Regardless, I think it is OK to include the daughter-in-law's son. This information is appropriate in the context of applications of Genealogy.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,578 posts, read 4,785,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Lol. Yeah, I do bad genealogy. Nice try.

Look. Your ancestor's friends, neighbors, associates may often have mentioned your ancestors. They left them things in wills. They sold land to them. They mentioned them in their diaries. They had them witness their documents. They may have moved with them from one place to another, and provide the key to finding your ancestor's prior location. That neighbor might be a step-sibling from a remarried mother. There are many ways that their records can solve your genealogical problems.

Any good genealogical program today will allow you to connect all kinds of people to your ancestors records. They won't show them as a blood line - as that would be incorrect. But they will show them as A PART OF YOUR ANCESTOR'S LIFE.

The purpose of genealogy (despite your simplistic adherence to a narrow definition of the word) is not only to prove a blood line, regardless of what the dictionary says. It's to recreate the lives of our ancestors. Who they were, what they experienced, what their lives were like, and who was important in their lives.

Personally, I have many grandparents. Only four of them were related by blood. Most of the others were important people in my life (one, I never met). Three of them were my (step)grandparents from before I was born. Do you think they don't factor into my life? They do. And even moreso into the lives of the grandparent that they married. Oh, and one of the pairs never married - but they lived together longer than most marriages last. And yes, I've researched all of their families, as well.

The world is made up of all kinds of relationship. And they're all important.
LOL, yes I think you do bad genealogy. You have no understanding of genealogy if you think you have more than 4 grandparents. I also don't see where I ever said that you can't use information from non family sources.

An important relationship does not make them family!

I don't care if a 3rd wife of a great grandfather enriched his life. If she did not have children with my great grandfather I would not include her. She might be listed as a wife, but not as my relative. And yes, you can use her for information but she is still not family.

Genealogy has a narrow definition. You can make up all that you want and call it the Enrico Family History, add best friend as cousin or a neighbor that you really love as an aunt and try to understand how they lived. Maybe you should look at a few royal lines of succession to understand but then you might even want to make a few of them your relatives.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,068,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
This is a genealogy forum. How a person treats an ex daughter in law means nothing since she never was a relative thus the words in law.

I include my adopted cousins. Those that are adopted are my only exceptions for having a common progenitor. They are legally my cousins. I am not talking about adopting someone with a known family. They know of no other relatives. I do not include my sister's or anyone's step children. The fact that I like my sister's step children and their children more than any relative also means nothing.

Step children have their own parents. They share relatives with their parents families. The fact that the parents are no longer married, or living, means nothing.

No one has more than 4 grandparents. 2 grandfathers and 2 grandmothers. What some other people consider family doesn't matter in genealogy.

No marriage has ever added relatives until the wedded couple has children.

Never used the married names of any women in the family in genealogy. Not your mother or your daughter or anyone else.

NY Annie, Your feelings for someone does not make them a relative. Only a common progenitor or legal adoption does.
This was my train of thought on the subject. I am not technically his grandmother and I have only met him once and it would be possible that I never see him again with the distance and his connection to family of Filipino decent both in the US and the Philippines. Had my son adopted him, it would have fit. I just felt awkward about it but at the same time, I knew he had no information on his birthfather and he is just a kid. Thank you to everyone that has replied. My 2nd cousin would love me to get involved with the family research since my beloved aunt whom she worked with has passed on to the other side.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,222 posts, read 12,809,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I consider the two children both my grandchildren.
Then you are his family and therefore your family history is his family history. What else is there to really consider?

Quote:
Ok people here are the common definitions of genealogy.
The OP's son actually asked for their family history, not genealogy.

Quote:
1.) A line of descent continuously traced from an ancestor.

So how can an in-law or step child factor in here?
ANY family tree software will allow you to add adopted children, step children, and in-laws. Anyone who doesn't know that obviously doesn't know much about genealogy.

These are actually the definitions of genealogy:

genealogy[ jee-nee-ol-uh-jee, -al-, jen-ee-]
noun [plural ge·ne·al·o·gies.]
1. a record or account of the ancestry and descent of a person, family, group, etc.
2. the study of family ancestries and histories.
3. descent from an original form or progenitor; lineage; ancestry.
4. a group of individuals or species having a common ancestry: The various species of Darwin's finches form a closely knit genealogy.

Note definition number two talks about the study of family history. How one defines their family is entirely up to them. This child has been adopted by the OP's family in all ways but legally, on paper. If the OP considers the child to be her grandson than he IS family. It's not your place to tell the OP she shouldn't consider this child her grandson. Would you really look into the eyes of a boy that you love and say "Sorry but you're not actually my grandson by blood and therefore I can't give you my family history." If so, that's messed up and I'm really glad I'm not a part of your family.
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Old 05-30-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,578 posts, read 4,785,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Then you are his family and therefore your family history is his family history. What else is there to really consider?



The OP's son actually asked for their family history, not genealogy.



ANY family tree software will allow you to add adopted children, step children, and in-laws. Anyone who doesn't know that obviously doesn't know much about genealogy.

These are actually the definitions of genealogy:

genealogy[ jee-nee-ol-uh-jee, -al-, jen-ee-]
noun [plural ge·ne·al·o·gies.]
1. a record or account of the ancestry and descent of a person, family, group, etc.
2. the study of family ancestries and histories.
3. descent from an original form or progenitor; lineage; ancestry.
4. a group of individuals or species having a common ancestry: The various species of Darwin's finches form a closely knit genealogy.

Note definition number two talks about the study of family history. How one defines their family is entirely up to them. This child has been adopted by the OP's family in all ways but legally, on paper. If the OP considers the child to be her grandson than he IS family. It's not your place to tell the OP she shouldn't consider this child her grandson. Would you really look into the eyes of a boy that you love and say "Sorry but you're not actually my grandson by blood and therefore I can't give you my family history." If so, that's messed up and I'm really glad I'm not a part of your family.

Why would you refuse to give them your family history? I would explain to the child about his family and most likely help them with that. They are still going to be treated the same as the blood relatives. As I said before I like the step children of my sister more than any relative. Who is considered family is not up to you. Family history is about the family, not all of the people that they may have come in contact with. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN FAMILY!
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,068,763 times
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I think the scout badge was for genealogy. I truly thought this would be a black/white issue but it appears to have gray areas with lots of opinions attached. I just wondered down to this thread: Genealogy VS Ancestry which is interesting.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,415 posts, read 10,039,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
LOL, yes I think you do bad genealogy. You have no understanding of genealogy if you think you have more than 4 grandparents. I also don't see where I ever said that you can't use information from non family sources.

An important relationship does not make them family!

I don't care if a 3rd wife of a great grandfather enriched his life. If she did not have children with my great grandfather I would not include her. She might be listed as a wife, but not as my relative. And yes, you can use her for information but she is still not family.

Genealogy has a narrow definition. You can make up all that you want and call it the Enrico Family History, add best friend as cousin or a neighbor that you really love as an aunt and try to understand how they lived. Maybe you should look at a few royal lines of succession to understand but then you might even want to make a few of them your relatives.
Well, let's see. I've been doing genealogy for well over four decades. Long before Roots came out. Or computers. Or census indexes. I've attended dozens of genealogical conventions to further my genealogical education, I've been responsible for putting on several of them, sat on the board of local and state-wide genealogical and historical organizations, edited and published genealogical and historical books and magazines, received awards for contributions to genealogy on a national and local level, lectured in genealogy. So yeah, I'm a bad genealogist.

Look up the meaning of relation or relationship. It's not limited to blood.

And what you said was "How could a non relative solve a genealogical brick wall?" And I told you how. Now you're acting all hurt because I did. Go figure.

And the fact that you bring up royal lines, tells me what kind of genealogist you are. But yes, I have several royal lines. And some pretty solidly proven ones. I know all about it. But I think it's a joke. I don't even include them in my genealogy, as I think the records are insufficient.

And please, stop implying that I make up relationships for associates. I don't. That would be bad genealogy. If it's an aunt, I call them an aunt. If it's a friend, I call them a friend. But to exclude someone (such as you suggest) from a family tree because they produced no offspring that are related to you by blood is ridiculous. And bad genealogy.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,222 posts, read 12,809,728 times
Reputation: 10451
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
Who is considered family is not up to you.
Yeah, that was MY point - it's not up to you either.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:54 PM
 
9,280 posts, read 5,788,929 times
Reputation: 7546
In girl scouts we had a girl trace and submit her stepdad's tree, no problem. In school we had adopted kids submit their adopted family tree. We are talking children here, some can't get their bio-family info. At this age, family to them is who they are living with, the ones that care for them. If they want, they can tackle their direct blood lines later.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,415 posts, read 10,039,435 times
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It's the people in children's lives who shape who they are, and who they become. The biological factor is one component, but the social factor is another. And neither is more important than the other. From the people in their lives, whether they're related or not, is where they learn their customs, their mannerisms, etc.
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