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Old 12-15-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
And then there's the joke that everyone is of royal lineage. Lots of Americans who don't actually do their genealogy throw that one around, as they do non-existent native American heritage. Reminds me of reincarnationists. Everyone man was Caesar. Every woman was Cleopatra.
Right. In a previous life they were................not just an ordinary ancient Egyptian and not an ordinary anything. They HAD to be Cleopatra herself. Beyond a joke.

But me? I do have a connection going way back, but not THAT far back. I did not find it myself but I'm pretty sure it's true. It was found by my late 5th cousin who did genealogy for years in England and even wrote a small book. We descend from a super rich and warlike family who built castles all over England and by the 1800s had degenerated into such worthless slobs that a few were thrown into York Dungeon. What they did is not printable here.

The minister wrote of one of them: "He died at a great age, a very evil man." So you can see I am not bragging about these people. I "met" a few other researchers online, one who had written two small books on the genealogy of this family. It was important to him because he still bore the family name. Their research matches that of my 5th cousin even though none of them ever met. The claim to fame is that the first member of the family to live in England was a knight who came with William the Conquerer. The king gave vast tracts of land and loads of money to this guy and they more or less established a dynasty. They intermarried to keep the money in the family and careful records were kept to make sure no one else got any money or any possessions left in someone's will.

Sometime in the 19C a girl from this family married into my family. At that time she was probably just a plain ordinary girl, not rich, not famous. It's all well documented --and a pain in the neck to get all of it into your family tree. I'd just as soon NOT have them. I'd hate to have to do my family tree if I descended from (let's see) Helen of Troy.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:28 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,423 posts, read 16,691,770 times
Reputation: 16430
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Right. In a previous life they were................not just an ordinary ancient Egyptian and not an ordinary anything. They HAD to be Cleopatra herself. Beyond a joke.

But me? I do have a connection going way back, but not THAT far back. I did not find it myself but I'm pretty sure it's true. It was found by my late 5th cousin who did genealogy for years in England and even wrote a small book. We descend from a super rich and warlike family who built castles all over England and by the 1800s had degenerated into such worthless slobs that a few were thrown into York Dungeon. What they did is not printable here.

The minister wrote of one of them: "He died at a great age, a very evil man." So you can see I am not bragging about these people. I "met" a few other researchers online, one who had written two small books on the genealogy of this family. It was important to him because he still bore the family name. Their research matches that of my 5th cousin even though none of them ever met. The claim to fame is that the first member of the family to live in England was a knight who came with William the Conquerer. The king gave vast tracts of land and loads of money to this guy and they more or less established a dynasty. They intermarried to keep the money in the family and careful records were kept to make sure no one else got any money or any possessions left in someone's will.

Sometime in the 19C a girl from this family married into my family. At that time she was probably just a plain ordinary girl, not rich, not famous. It's all well documented --and a pain in the neck to get all of it into your family tree. I'd just as soon NOT have them. I'd hate to have to do my family tree if I descended from (let's see) Helen of Troy.
People seem to think of gentry as the Grahams of Dowton Abby and royalty as the current princes. But all you have to do is study English history and you find a very bloody legacy. Of course, it was a very bloody time. William is considered one of the most bloody of conquerors, and removed all non-normans from any position of authority. Their language was even banned. Kings and those who ruled smaller areas were basically warlords. It was the world it was.

I wish people would do some research and learn some history along with looking for ancestors since its can relate you to the past. My fivexgreat grandfather came as a convict, but using parish records someone traced them back to 1400 and pesants/serfs on an estate which eventually became part of East London. It made all the stuff I'd studied real that I have a connection to it.

The best thing about finding ancestors, even if they were awful sorts, is making that connection.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,510 posts, read 26,116,900 times
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Many of us do have connections to royalty. The daughters and all those younger sons had to marry someone. Proving the link with paper can be hard, though. I have a few connections that seem to me to be credible. We also probably all have some evil folks in the mix, too. So far I have one murderer in my tree - convicted and hanged for it.

I agree that genealogy gives you a new perspective on history. My favorite author writes novels set in eighteenth century Scotland and Colonial America. Her books are vivid and detailed and, although she takes the liberties associated with fiction, historically accurate. I found it amusing to discover that I may be related to Simon Fraser, of Lovat, whom she portrayed as a nasty old man. He was executed by the English after Culloden. Her books also introduced me to the War of the Regulation in North Carolina. I had never heard of it. I now have identified an ancestor who participated in it.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:37 AM
bjh bjh started this thread
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,135 posts, read 22,790,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
People seem to think of gentry as the Grahams of Dowton Abby and royalty as the current princes. But all you have to do is study English history and you find a very bloody legacy. Of course, it was a very bloody time. William is considered one of the most bloody of conquerors, and removed all non-normans from any position of authority. Their language was even banned. Kings and those who ruled smaller areas were basically warlords. It was the world it was.

I wish people would do some research and learn some history along with looking for ancestors since its can relate you to the past. My fivexgreat grandfather came as a convict, but using parish records someone traced them back to 1400 and pesants/serfs on an estate which eventually became part of East London. It made all the stuff I'd studied real that I have a connection to it.

The best thing about finding ancestors, even if they were awful sorts, is making that connection.
Right. A lot of the current nobility are not so hot themselves. They just have less power than their ancestors. I look at it like this, today's nobles and royals are the descendants of the most vicious bastards of the middle ages. A society with laws protecting the humblest citizens or subjects is the main reason we don't still suffer from the cruelty shown the peasants.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:04 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,014 posts, read 17,167,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
Right. A lot of the current nobility are not so hot themselves. They just have less power than their ancestors. I look at it like this, today's nobles and royals are the descendants of the most vicious bastards of the middle ages. A society with laws protecting the humblest citizens or subjects is the main reason we don't still suffer from the cruelty shown the peasants.
A lot of history seems to be based upon who was the most vicious and rotten, strongest and most ruthless. They were the winners and they became the rulers, the royalty, the rich.

And I always say that if you take any family and go back far enough you'll find rich and you'll find poor somewhere along the way. Probably true.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:15 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,423 posts, read 16,691,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
A lot of history seems to be based upon who was the most vicious and rotten, strongest and most ruthless. They were the winners and they became the rulers, the royalty, the rich.

And I always say that if you take any family and go back far enough you'll find rich and you'll find poor somewhere along the way. Probably true.
When I trace my five x g grandfathers line, the fascinating thing is the parish records record births and deaths and land taxes, but also the position of the family. Early on they were small land owners, owning a couple of strips of land. There were actually three villages served by the parish, and the next generation they had lost one. They went from being small farmers to skilled labor to just labor and you can tell when the estate went to sheep by the lack of 'on the fields' in the name. And the generation before him, the birth place is slashed between the village/estate name and the county as it was taken over by East London. The next few generations were thieves, but then in the East End it was an honorable way to survive.

Sadly, though we are more civilized about it, we haven't lost that heritage. Methods change, but the ones willing to do whatever it takes are the ones who get to win even today.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:45 PM
bjh bjh started this thread
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,135 posts, read 22,790,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
A lot of history seems to be based upon who was the most vicious and rotten, strongest and most ruthless. They were the winners and they became the rulers, the royalty, the rich.

And I always say that if you take any family and go back far enough you'll find rich and you'll find poor somewhere along the way. Probably true.
I think that is probably true. I have ancestors who were dirt poor, came to America and did respectably or even quite well. Also ancestors in Massachusetts who were very well off in the 1800s. Sadly none of it trickled down.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:38 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,014 posts, read 17,167,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
I think that is probably true. I have ancestors who were dirt poor, came to America and did respectably or even quite well. Also ancestors in Massachusetts who were very well off in the 1800s. Sadly none of it trickled down.
Same here. Somehow all that wealth ran out a few generations before it ever got to me. One of these days I'm going back to England to reclaim some of my castles though. Ha!
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:03 PM
bjh bjh started this thread
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
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Discovered great aunt's middle name is Estelle. Had just been E. all these years. I like to find out full names.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:09 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
18,014 posts, read 17,167,297 times
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Originally Posted by bjh View Post
Discovered great aunt's middle name is Estelle. Had just been E. all these years. I like to find out full names.
Every little bit helps. You never know when there might be someone in the family named Estelle and now you know the connection. Pretty name too.
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my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
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