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Old 06-26-2013, 11:42 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,097,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Most black americans do not have black skin to begin with and please save that my ancestors were raped by slavemasters stuff.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:16 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,097,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Most black americans do not have black skin to begin...Most of us are a shade of brown from red boned to dark chocolate. Same with people in Melanesia, Southeast Asia, and even Parts of Africa.
So what is a "black" American? How is that defined exactly since you as you point out the admixture of persons of African descent and Europeans is pronounced throughout the population of people considered black, whatever that means, because the color one's skin is only meaningful with regards to biological adaptation of groups of humans who migrated to the different environments that humans have habituated.

So who is black and who isn't based upon this 18th century idea that humans could be divided into races? And what exactly does it mean to be black?
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
1,105 posts, read 2,744,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Nobody has ever designated that "White American" is an ethnic group. Nor is European American an ethnic group. The term African American is a unique, specific designation for a group that has a unique history in America.



Actually, it makes perfect sense; no other ethnic group in the US, nor in the world, is identified with a color - a color that is not even appropriate. All others are identified with by the geographic name of the place from which they originate. My ethnic origin is not "black," nor is my color. I will call myself black in a racial sense, but that's not what we are discussing here.
Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit there? You say that European American is not an appropriate term because they are not an ethnic group but go on to say that all people should be referred to by the name of the place they come from. White Americans have their origin in Europe just like black Americans have their origin in Africa. Why should it be acknowledged in one group and not the other and why are whites the only group that is referred to as only American?
The argument that whites do refer to themselves by their origin, such as Irish-American, is not really an accurate comparison. These labels are not universally used but are mainly just brought up by the people themselves on special occasions like holidays.

I actually think terms like Italian-American, German-American, etc., are quite silly when used by Americans with no connections to the European country other than a relative they may never even have met.
I consider myself and I believe accurately am Swedish-American. Both my parents are Swedish and I was born in Sweden but I live in America and am therefore both Swedish and American, i.e., Swedish-American. I find it quite ridiculous though when I meet people who, after finding out that I'm Swedish, tell me that they too are Swedish but when asked clearly don't undestand a word of Swedish and have never even been there. These people are not Swedish or Swedish-American. They are Americans who have a relative who were born in Sweden. The fuss all these [European Country]-Americans make with things like making traditional food and celebrating, often a watered down version, holidays from the country in question is just silliness.

Unless you are a first and maybe second generation immigrant you're American. No more no less. Where a relative of yours lived 300 years ago is not relevant at this point and you don't share that person's nationality. There are differences between white and black American cultures but I don't think that's necessarily explained by African influences on black American culture. Considering history I think it's quite unlikely that any significant portion of any African culture have survived. Africans were kidnapped and bought all over Africa during a 300+ year period so it's unlikely that people who were enslaved on the same plantation had enough African culture in common for it to survive. Cultures or cultural aspects aren't carried on by individuals so it's most likely that any Africanness mostly died with the Africans who were brought here. That's especially likely considering that slave owners actively tried to suppress African culture.
It's much more probable that black American culture grew out of this mixed group of people that were forced together as a unique and distinct culture greatly influenced by the European culture they lived within.
On some Caribbean islands things are different though and you can easily see that parts of West African culture lives on. But the slaves on the islands were usually the majority and had a better chance to remain, to a degree, an autonomous group that could maintain a culture. People in the Caribbean, like Haiti for example, even look more African. You can easily tell the difference between an African and a black American. Black Americans have been too mixed with different African nationalities and other groups and so influenced by white America that I just don't think any African culture have had a chance to survive.
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:43 AM
 
Location: SWFL
21,521 posts, read 18,196,462 times
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Black Africans from Africa are just that...BLACK. Really, really black. Black Americans are watered down versions of their original ancestry.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:10 AM
 
8,831 posts, read 9,646,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
Most black americans do not have black skin to begin with and please save that my ancestors were raped by slavemasters stuff. Most of us are a shade of brown from red boned to dark chocolate. Same with people in Melanesia, Southeast Asia, and even Parts of Africa. As far as what is not indigenous to this part if the world. This isn't the forum to go into that and I could state my personal beliefs but I don't feel like going back and forth with it.
Black is a relative term as is white. Sensitive about the black skin part are we? Mother Africa marks all her children and not just with black skin. I don't have "personal beliefs" I tend to agree with the scholars on the subject. I have two histories on the indigenous peoples of the Americas and out of the 300 or more native American groups cited and 125 south western peoples cited in both books not one of them cites anyone with black skin who was indigenous. In this area I defer to Native American and Mexican American scholars.

Before we get bogged down in anthropology and cultural universals,the point of my post was, from a historical perspective, most "black" people in America are here becasue of a historical event. The term African American defines a group of people in America who's DNA will also show that they have African, Native American and European ancestors.

An example I like to use in this discussion is that of my great grandfather. He was young "black" man born in England and winded up in slavery in Arkansas. When the Creeks were sent there a Creek woman bore him several children. Would that make my grandfather part Creek and Part British? My grandfather’s birth and subsequent life was directly due to the Slave Trade. His skin is not “Black” he infact appears to look like a fair skinned Native American, but he is indeed an African America and he self identifies himself as such on his 1917 draft records were he wrote “Negro” He may have culturally been a Creek because he spent most of his young life on the Creek reservation, but ethnically he was a Negro.

Last edited by thriftylefty; 06-27-2013 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,112,104 times
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Count me in as confused. I would view an African American as someone who came over from Africa and had gotten their American citizenship. My daughter-in-law is an Asian American coming here from Asia and then getting her American citizenship. Signed: European American - American since the 1800s?
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:36 AM
 
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Africa is not a country and there are two continents called America, and before anyone brings her into this "scholarly" discussion, no Charlise Theron is not an African American. She like most others from the continent of Africa would be referred to a naturalized American citizen of (enter a country not a continent here) decent.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,249 posts, read 25,960,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
right back at ya. Get a crayon. Compare it to most "black" americans. See if we match that color. Most don't. Like I said, we range in different shades of brown. Not to mention, once people get the etymology of the word, you will see that it doesn't fit us anyway.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,943,865 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
right back at ya. Get a crayon. Compare it to most "black" americans. See if we match that color. Most don't. Like I said, we range in different shades of brown. Not to mention, once people get the etymology of the word, you will see that it doesn't fit us anyway.
This discussion has nothing to do with gradations or shades of skin color. An African American comes from a distinct culture, one not shared by African immigrants.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,249 posts, read 25,960,605 times
Reputation: 9013
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Black is a relative term as is white. Sensitive about the black skin part are we? Mother Africa marks all her children and not just with black skin. I don't have "personal beliefs" I tend to agree with the scholars on the subject. I have two histories on the indigenous peoples of the Americas and out of the 300 or more native American groups cited and 125 south western peoples cited in both books not one of them cites anyone with black skin who was indigenous. In this area I defer to Native American and Mexican American scholars.

Before we get bogged down in anthropology and cultural universals,the point of my post was, from a historical perspective, most "black" people in America are here becasue of a historical event. The term African American defines a group of people in America who's DNA will also show that they have African, Native American and European ancestors.

An example I like to use in this discussion is that of my great grandfather. He was young "black" man born in England and winded up in slavery in Arkansas. When the Creeks were sent there a Creek woman bore him several children. Would that make my grandfather part Creek and Part British? My grandfather’s birth and subsequent life was directly due to the Slave Trade. His skin is not “Black” he infact appears to look like a fair skinned Native American, but he is indeed an African America and he self identifies himself as such on his 1917 draft records were he wrote “Negro” He may have culturally been a Creek because he spent most of his young life on the Creek reservation, but ethnically he was a Negro.
I tend not to hold my position on just scholars. Especially scholars that are not us and the black elite that lie straight through their teeth. Tired of everybody else telling our story. As far as the event you are talking about. I have my doubts that it happen the way they said it did. Then to add to the point on how much of a fraud roots was and how much of a hoax goree slave house was. Add to the point how my elders such as my great grandparents got upset at me when I told them we were from Africa and then telling me we were already here. I have to do the research in my own about my story as that's what I'm only dealing with. This is Off topic but I'd be glad to continue in pm if you'd like. Btw I am not sensitive at all about my skin. I love who i am and wouldn't have it any other way.
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