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Old 06-28-2013, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
I really big part of "culture" is religion. Majority of black Americans are Christian.
What is the name of the oldest black denomination in the country? Here's a hint, African Methodist Episcopal Church!

Is African American Christian theological tradition different than white theological tradition, damned right it is! While white theological tradition was centered on individual salvation, amongst African Americans the old testament took precedence. The escape of the Jews from bondage in Israel, what was the seminal negro spiritual?

When Israel was in Egyptís land,
Let My people go!
Oppressed so hard they could not stand,
Let My people go!
Refrain:
Go down, Moses,
Way down in Egyptís land;
Tell old Pharaoh
To let My people go!
No more shall they in bondage toil,
Let My people go!
Let them come out with Egyptís spoil,
Let My people go!
Oh, let us all from bondage flee,
Let My people go!
And let us all in Christ be free,
Let My people go!
You need not always weep and mourn,
Let My people go!
And wear these slavíry chains forlorn,
Let My people go!
Your foes shall not before you stand,
Let My people go!
And youíll possess fair Canaanís land,
Let My people go!


Negro Christian liturgy was to adopted the Bible's lessons of God's liberation of the Jews from tyranny and oppression and the suffering of Jesus, wasn't about absolving original sin, it was about enduring suffering until the evil of the oppressor was lifted from them.

Christianity was transformed to fit a people who because of the Africaness were denied freedom. Prohibited for practicing their native religion they transformed the religion of their oppressor into a religion of endurance, survival and liberation! In Protestant dominated colonies, while in Spanish Colonies like Louisiana African religions flourished and still exist.

Know your history, before wading in the waters.

As for linguistics, I've already posted a link to linguistic studies that demonstrate that even amongst Southern accents African Americans have distinct speech patterns. But if you can't understand a simple discussion about music...

There is only so much time and too much ignorance for me to take on.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:09 PM
 
8,812 posts, read 9,628,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
I really big part of "culture" is religion. Majority of black Americans are Christian. Many if not most have no clue about indigenous West African religions. Christianity most certainly wasn't born in West Africa, and it has been a hallmark of European culture for centuries. A lot of Africans are now Christian due to colonialism, but black Americans have been Christians much longer.

so two MAJOR aspects of culture are missing in transition, language and religion. We don't speak an African dialect, we speak english, and we are mainly Christian. Yet people want to say that black Americans have really strong African culture. Come on people, let's get real.
You know Christianity goes back to the 2nd or 3rd century AD in Africa?

Christianity in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




"Christianity in Africa began in Egypt in the middle of the 1st century. By the end of the 2nd century it had reached the region around Carthage. Important Africans who influenced the early development of Christianity include Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen of Alexandria, Cyprian, Athanasius and Augustine of Hippo."
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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sure, so Europe did NOT have to indoctrinate Africans at ALL. Africans were already Christian. I'm sure the whole mission to convert colonies to Christainity didn't really exist, because you know, Africans were already Christain. I'm sure there was SOME Christainity in Africa, but it certainly wasn't a majority religion. And it certainly was not the religion of choice in tribal West Africa. I mean you guys are really reaching.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:23 PM
 
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Although I can't hear your voice I bet you speak "tonally". Tonal language is something African Americans got from West Africa. When I speak the phrase, "say what?" If I change the pitch of the phrase higher it doesn’t mean I did not hear you it means I am in disbelief. This is common in African American vernacular speech patterns, changing the pitch of a word to change its meaning.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
18,890 posts, read 12,498,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel ben Ysrayl View Post
This has been an interesting thread and I've enjoyed reading it. Fact of the matter is this, all of these terms are misleading to include: African America, American, Black, Negro, Ni@@er, Coon, Porch Monkey etc. As a "Black" man myself I must tell you that:
1. No "Black" person who's ancestors arrived to these shores qualifies as a "citizen" regardless of the amount of time spent on this continent. Why? Because our ancestors were not invited to arrive here as "citizens" neither did our ancestors participate in taking of this land from the Native Americans by force and deceit. Nor can we use the few examples of the Buffalo Soldiers against the Natives as they were merely following the orders of their "white" masters.
2.According to the highly esteemed US Constitution: Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 it clearly states that we as "blacks" are not human but are 3/5 of a person. Only "humans" were allowed "citizenship" in America.
3. Dred Scott decision from the US Supreme Court clearly stated from Justice R. Taney: "Blacks" ie non-humans could never be "citizens" as they were property "
Any person descended from Africans, whether slave or free, is not a citizen of the United States, according to the Constitution.
The Ordinance of 1787 could not confer either freedom or citizenship within the Northwest Territory to non-white individuals.
The provisions of the Act of 1820, known as the Missouri Compromise, were voided as a legislative act, since the act exceeded the powers of Congress, insofar as it attempted to exclude slavery and impart freedom and citizenship to non-white persons in the northern part of the Louisiana Purchase.
4.One can not make the argument that these decisions were superceded or null and void when said language is still in the US Constitution.
5. The movement iniatiated by members of this society to return the non-humans "Blacks" to Africa once they could no longer be used for outright chattel slavery with the cessation of the Civil War and the issuance of the "Emancipation Proclamation" which by the way, does not provide for true freedom neither the means to repair the physical, economic, spiritual and psychological damage of 400 of slavery and genocide.

We could go further but taken together it becomes clear that what we are called by others and those "Black Leaders" who claim to speak for us makes no difference as we "Blacks" have no legal standing in this "country" or in any nation to where we were taken to during the Indian Ocean and Trans-Atlantic Slave Trades. To expect fair treatment in the land of those who are not your friends is ludricrious to say the least. To expect those who are not your friends to tell you the truth of your origin and reason for being in their land is more insanity. I personally, and those who I associate with who are concious prefer to call ourselves by our true name: Ysrayl ie Israelites.
Text of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.[1]
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,836,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Although I can't hear your voice I bet you speak "tonally". Tonal language is something African Americans got from West Africa. When I speak the phrase, "say what?" If I change the pitch of the phrase higher it doesnít mean I did not hear you it means I am in disbelief. This is common in African American vernacular speech patterns, changing the pitch of a word to change its meaning.


Get the F out of here, you speak english, not some West African dialect. your mother speaks English, your father did, probably your grand mother, her mother, and HER mother spoke english. you're confusing accents, which could very well be different with actually major influences. And you fail to address that entire vocal patterns and phonemes are COMPLETELY missing in modern english. Much of the "black dialect" black people speak is due to generations of poor education. though there are a ton of blacks in this country, with education who has no distinctive differences in speech than whites. I can tell your there are some blacks you wouldn't even know are black if you only heard them speak. Blacks do not have their own language in America. Black slang and broken english is different depending where in the country you go. slang in NYC is different than slang in Chicago, or Atlanta, or even LA. The way blacks speak in the USA has NOTHING to do with Africa at all. This is to justify their poor speech and lack of education
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,836,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
Being referred to as "black American" is too broad.
You risk lumping people of different races and nationalities by doing so.
How would you distinguish an African who immigrated in the past year from an american who happens to be black that had ancestors that were slaves?

Let me ask you this....there are people who are "black" in skin color,however,they aren't of African origin.
These include people from India,Oceania,Papua New Guinea,and Australian Aborigines.
Just because someone is black in skin color doesn't mean they have African origins.

Another point is that no one is truly black in color,so that's not really accurate either.

Get rid of all this hypenated american,and anything referring to color.

There should only be 3 things: Citizen,naturalized citizen or illegal immigrant.

Black is fine. It's an informal term just acknowledging someone's skin color. It's not meant to really speculate on someone's heritage or background. It's simply just a casual observation that someone has a darker skin tone. It's not meant to be as anything taken special. African American is a term that takes itself much more seriously. But if one were to try to justify the term, you probably couldn't without a bunch of activist and revisionist history.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:43 PM
 
8,812 posts, read 9,628,984 times
Reputation: 6695
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Get the F out of here, you speak english, not some West African dialect. your mother speaks English, your father did, probably your grand mother, her mother, and HER mother spoke english. you're confusing accents, which could very well be different with actually major influences. And you fail to address that entire vocal patterns and phonemes are COMPLETELY missing in modern english. Much of the "black dialect" black people speak is due to generations of poor education. though there are a ton of blacks in this country, with education who has no distinctive differences in speech than whites. I can tell your there are some blacks you wouldn't even know are black if you only heard them speak. Blacks do not have their own language in America. Black slang and broken english is different depending where in the country you go. slang in NYC is different than slang in Chicago, or Atlanta, or even LA. The way blacks speak in the USA has NOTHING to do with Africa at all. This is to justify their poor speech and lack of education
All of this is patently untrue, haven't you read anything on this subject or did some old street corner philosopher teach about being black? Nowhere in my post did I refer to dialect. Don't you know the difference between vocal inflections and dialect?
Normally with formidable scholars on this forum I have to dart between my old out dated computer and my thirty year old collection of books on African American culture and history ( I’ve read about everything) I could write a dissertation just on your ignorance on this subject off the top of my head .
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:42 AM
 
8,195 posts, read 10,217,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Black is fine. It's an informal term just acknowledging someone's skin color. It's not meant to really speculate on someone's heritage or background. It's simply just a casual observation that someone has a darker skin tone. It's not meant to be as anything taken special. African American is a term that takes itself much more seriously. But if one were to try to justify the term, you probably couldn't without a bunch of activist and revisionist history.
So if you use "black" you risk putting Caribbean and African immigrants to this country in the same box as you,when they are different culturally.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,836,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
So if you use "black" you risk putting Caribbean and African immigrants to this country in the same box as you,when they are different culturally.

.Again, black is just recognizing skin color that's darker. It isn't meant to be taken as a cultural indicator.
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