U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,386 posts, read 9,962,057 times
Reputation: 5230

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
You're mixing apples and oranges. Again.
How so? I was just using a similar example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,839,991 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
It does, because I choose it to.



My father's family has been here since the 1600s. And I have written extensively about this topic on many occasions.





I'm not going to claim that black Americans are all that different culturally than white Americans, but I am going to say that we have elements in our culture that are from Africa, just as Italian- and Polish- and Chinese Americans have elements in their culture that come from their places of origin.

There is no element of African culture in Black American culture that I can see. You have to name specific examples, because I can't see one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,923,136 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
There is no element of African culture in Black American culture that I can see. You have to name specific examples, because I can't see one.
Just a short list - I'm not at liberty to write long posts now:

1. Religion - rituals such as vodou in Louisiana and related Afro-Atlantic belief systems in Southern states such as South Carolina, Georgia and Florida

2. Black vernacular English and Gullah spoken language

3. Southern cooking

4. Manner of worship in African American Christianity

5. Difference in regard to perception of ideal physiognomy in women

Just a very short list. Music, cuisine, and other aspects of the culture also retain African elements.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,839,991 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Just a short list - I'm not at liberty to write long posts now:

1. Religion - rituals such as vodou in Louisiana and related Afro-Atlantic belief systems in Southern states such as South Carolina, Georgia and Florida

Many blacks in the south are predominately Christian, and have been this way for generations. And when I say generations, I mean 6 or 7 generations. There is nearly no similarities between any religious rituals practiced in the USA amongst blacks and that of West African indigenous populations. Again, I invite you to juxtapose any random indigenous West African religion with southern baptist


Quote:
2. Black vernacular English and Gullah spoken language
Another common misconceptions. Has no phonetic similarities with African dialects. Again, one just has to read, and you'll see no vocal structures. And whites in the south speak VERY similarly.

Quote:
3. Southern cooking
Southern crusines are NOT based out of Africa. Again, compare African crusines with southern cuisines, and you'll see no ties in preparation and quantities.

Quote:
4. Manner of worship in African American Christianity
This is a southern thing, not an African thing. you'll find this type of worship is common amongst whites in the south too.

Quote:
5. Difference in regard to perception of ideal physiognomy in women

You're reaching. And actually African black women are built very different than your typical black American woman from the south.

Quote:
Just a very short list. Music, cuisine, and other aspects of the culture also retain African elements.
The music thing is most definitely miseducation. There are more similarities to Irish Folk and German waltz than there could EVER be to anything they do in Africa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
6,415 posts, read 10,045,808 times
Reputation: 5779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Irrelevant. There are Chinese and Japanese Americans who have never been to their ancestral countries, yet nobody stresses them for calling themselves Chinese or Japanese Americans.


I am an African American. There is no place on Earth called "Blackia."
So then I'm assuming you don't call anyone "white" then? Because there's no "Whitia" either.

Look, I'm all for any group of people being referred to however they wish. But you have to give me a better reason than the fact there's no place called "Blackia." Just say it's what you prefer and leave it at that.

But you must admit that there are problems with the term. It just quite doesn't fit. Right up there with us all calling ourselves "Americans." Considering there are two continents filled with people to whom that refers - having a more precise name to call the inhabitants of the country would sure seem more precise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:12 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,077,722 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Yet there is no linguistical ties to the Black American and Africa YET we somehow kept all of these other traditions. To be real with you, anyone who is intellectually honest in the slightest can see anything that is considered "black culture" is really just talking about American culture.
What is funny is that linguist, and anthropologist disagree. But then they are just "intellectual."

Quote:
One of the popular points that black intellectuals try to make is about gospel music, and the old negro spirituals, to make it seem as if it is an African thing. But if one look at old hymns out of Ireland, you'll find similarities.
One need not be a trained musician or an intellectual to hear the difference between how the very same spiritual is sung in a African American church and a European American church. Just watch white folks try to keep time in a black church.

Quote:
Blues is more than likely derived from Irish Folk music, as Irish were often the whites who interacted with blacks the most.
I know, I can't tell the difference between the music of the Chieftains and Robert Johnson.

Enough of this silliness and denial.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,923,136 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
So then I'm assuming you don't call anyone "white" then? Because there's no "Whitia" either.
Nobody has ever designated that "White American" is an ethnic group. Nor is European American an ethnic group. The term African American is a unique, specific designation for a group that has a unique history in America.

Quote:
Look, I'm all for any group of people being referred to however they wish. But you have to give me a better reason than the fact there's no place called "Blackia." Just say it's what you prefer and leave it at that.
Actually, it makes perfect sense; no other ethnic group in the US, nor in the world, is identified with a color - a color that is not even appropriate. All others are identified with by the geographic name of the place from which they originate. My ethnic origin is not "black," nor is my color. I will call myself black in a racial sense, but that's not what we are discussing here.

Quote:
But you must admit that there are problems with the term. It just quite doesn't fit. Right up there with us all calling ourselves "Americans." Considering there are two continents filled with people to whom that refers - having a more precise name to call the inhabitants of the country would sure seem more precise.
The fact that the United States of America doesn't have a real name for itself is not problematic in this discussion; those in South or Central America do not use "American" when naming their nationality or citizenship. They are simply Mexicans, Brazilians, Hondurans, Dominicans, Cubans, etc. Right now, all we are is Americans. I am of African origin, therefore I am an African American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,318 posts, read 4,839,991 times
Reputation: 3766
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
What is funny is that linguist, and anthropologist disagree. But then they are just "intellectual."

And again, how does this explain WHITES in the south having the same linguistical patterns? how does this explain that complete phonems in many West African languages are COMPLETELY missing in modern "black" dialect? Why aren't there any words from Africa still used in black speech at ALL?



Quote:
One need not be a trained musician or an intellectual to hear the difference between how the very same spiritual is sung in a African American church and a European American church. Just watch white folks try to keep time in a black church.
There are NO differences between black southern baptist worship or white southern baptist. White southern baptist churches worship pretty much the same. Again, this is a SOUTHERN thing, not an African thing. If you want to say Africa influenced white southern baptist, then why can't we just call white southerners Africans as well?



Quote:
I know, I can't tell the difference between the music of the Chieftains and Robert Johnson.

Enough of this silliness and denial.
Listen to early blues and country, and there are very few differences besides the color of the performer. Musical signatures and rythms were completely the same. Blues of course evolved over the years as well as country, where today they sound different. But one can't deny they share similar roots. And again, listen to music from Africa, and tell me how any of this creates gospel or blues?

Remember blues and country CAME from old gospel in the south. But there is no logical connection between ritualistic worship in indigenous African religions and southern gospel in the 1800s. Rythm wise and timing wise, they don't sound anything alike. And how were rythms and such able to be transferred into modern black culture, yet most blacks can't even name a tribe in Africa, let alone speak a word of their mother tongues? you'd think it would be easier to take away things like customs and worship ceremonies than it would be to take away an entire language. Seems like whites had no problem totally destroying any African dialects in America, but somehow allowed rituals and worship ceremonies to survive.

Let's be real, the assumption that black American culture has anything to do with Africa is bogus. It's really perpetuated by black intellectuals who need to justify their jobs and funding. Not enough white people care to question it, so these lies are passed down through generations. Again, it was an eye opening experience when I decided to actually study West Africa. Also, I've had family members who have visited Africa. They also have come back and told me that Africans feel they have no connection with black Americans. And many Africans here ask what anything us blacks are doing has to do with Africa.

The cultures are NOT the same, even remotely. The black American has more cultural influence with England and Ireland than it does with Africa. you have to really dig and dig to even find a weak correlation between black American culture and Africa, but there are too many painfully obvious similarities between black American culture and British culture.

Give it up, there is no reason ethnically or culturally to ever call a black American an African American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,237 posts, read 25,935,555 times
Reputation: 9002
Blame Jesse Jackson for that stupid term. As a Black man, I hate the term. I try not to use it anymore for anything. I just say Black or American. I tell people, I am not an African American. I am just Black or just American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Scrapple country
1,228 posts, read 1,083,510 times
Reputation: 3249
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
It is quite amazing that linguistics have not been carried over from Africa at ALL yet it seems like all of these other "customs" have been carried over. I would think it would be harder to get rid of the linguistics aspect of a culture than any other customs. Yet there is no linguistical ties to the Black American and Africa YET we somehow kept all of these other traditions.
Wait a minute. What about Haitian creole - brought over from Haiti and in use in the US? Haitian Creole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What about the Gullah people of the South Carolinian low country? They speak a hybrid language that has some roots in African and island languages. Gullah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top