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Old 11-02-2015, 09:34 AM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
AncestryDNA gave my mother 1% "Western African" but this region extends on their map from Benin all the way to South Africa, so all I know is it is from the western side of Africa.

I used to think it was Senegambian admixture in us but now I am thinking Angolan is just as plausible. But on one of the GEDmatch calculators, (MDLP K13 Ultimate) it had me as 96% North Italian, 4% Fulani. Fulani are a tribe in West Africa.
The Fulani had a caste system and absorbed groups that weren't ethnically Fulani complicating things. With your known Cape Verde ancestry the Fulani of Guinea and Mali are much more plausible than those of northern Nigeria. There isn't any documentation to indicate that the Portuguese were acquiring Fulani from their trading partners the Yoruba(Kingdom of Benin). From Nigeria it was the Igbo, Ijaw and several tribes from the Delta.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
The Fulani had a caste system and absorbed groups that weren't ethnically Fulani complicating things. With your known Cape Verde ancestry the Fulani of Guinea and Mali are much more plausible than those of northern Nigeria. There isn't any documentation to indicate that the Portuguese were acquiring Fulani from their trading partners the Yoruba(Kingdom of Benin). From Nigeria it was the Igbo, Ijaw and several tribes from the Delta.
This was the result, I'll send the whole iteration:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.6% Italy-Friul + 6.4% Morocco_S @ 0.9
2 96.2% Italy-Friul + 3.8% Fulani @ 0.96
3 85.6% Italy-Friul + 14.4% Caribbean_Hispanic @ 1.09
4 97.1% Italy-Friul + 2.9% Bulala @ 1.32
5 97.1% Italy-Friul + 2.9% Dinka @ 1.34
6 96.4% Italy-Friul + 3.6% Masai_Kinyawa_MKK @ 1.34
7 97.3% Italy-Friul + 2.7% Mada @ 1.35
8 96.9% Italy-Friul + 3.1% Lemba @ 1.35
9 97.3% Italy-Friul + 2.7% Dogon @ 1.35
10 97.3% Italy-Friul + 2.7% Bambaran @ 1.35
11 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Mandenka @ 1.35
12 96.7% Italy-Friul + 3.3% Kikuyu @ 1.36
13 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Gambian_GWD @ 1.36
14 96.7% Italy-Friul + 3.3% Hema @ 1.37
15 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Esan_Nigeria_ESN @ 1.37
16 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Yoruban @ 1.37
17 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Yoruba @ 1.37
18 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Hausa @ 1.37
19 97.4% Italy-Friul + 2.6% Mende_Sierra_Leone_MSL @ 1.37
20 97.2% Italy-Friul + 2.8% Luhya_Kenya_LWK @ 1.37
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:36 PM
AFP
 
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What calculator did you use?

Try using the Puntdnal K8 African calculator it compares your DNA to African populations these are my results.

puntDNAL K8b Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Western_Semitic 89.54
2 Omotic 7.45
3 Southern_HG 1.16
4 Eastern_HG 1.14


Finished reading population data. 48 populations found.
8 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egyptian @ 5.392364
2 N_Moroccan @ 8.553030
3 Tunisian @ 9.216551
4 Libyan @ 11.848036
5 Algerian @ 13.393924
6 Mozabite @ 13.601024
7 S_Moroccan @ 25.802620
8 Ethiopian_Tygray @ 44.590160
9 Ethiopian_Amhara @ 48.749500
10 Ethiopian_Afar @ 48.929653
11 Ethiopian_Oromo @ 55.041267
12 Somali @ 56.913055
13 Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 67.725281
14 Nigeria_Fulani @ 70.901466
15 Kenyan_Maasai @ 82.256836
16 Tanzania_Sandawe @ 83.419998
17 DRC_Hema @ 89.537498
18 Ethiopian_AriCultivator @ 89.547157
19 Chad_Bulala @ 100.520432
20 Kenyan_Bantu @ 101.130669

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian +50% Egyptian @ 5.392364


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian +25% Egyptian +25% Egyptian @ 5.392364


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian @ 5.392364
2 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Tunisian @ 5.956840
3 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian + N_Moroccan @ 5.983174
4 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Libyan @ 6.695341
5 Egyptian + Egyptian + N_Moroccan + N_Moroccan @ 6.736124
6 Egyptian + Egyptian + N_Moroccan + Tunisian @ 6.770685
7 Egyptian + Egyptian + Tunisian + Tunisian @ 6.848974
8 Algerian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian @ 6.883101
9 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Mozabite @ 6.977054
10 Egyptian + Egyptian + Libyan + N_Moroccan @ 7.488633
11 Egyptian + Egyptian + Libyan + Tunisian @ 7.534647
12 Egyptian + N_Moroccan + N_Moroccan + N_Moroccan @ 7.604429
13 Egyptian + N_Moroccan + N_Moroccan + Tunisian @ 7.686052
14 Algerian + Egyptian + Egyptian + N_Moroccan @ 7.743001
15 Algerian + Egyptian + Egyptian + Tunisian @ 7.803624
16 Egyptian + N_Moroccan + Tunisian + Tunisian @ 7.805314
17 Egyptian + Egyptian + Mozabite + N_Moroccan @ 7.815456
18 Egyptian + Egyptian + Mozabite + Tunisian @ 7.894424
19 Egyptian + Tunisian + Tunisian + Tunisian @ 7.958571
20 Egyptian + Egyptian + Libyan + Libyan @ 8.283390
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:53 PM
 
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That was MDLP K13 Ultimate.

Here is PuntDNA K8:

# Population Percent
1 Western_Semitic 90.68
2 Omotic 5.34
3 Southern_HG 1.67
4 Nilo_Saharan 1.56
5 Ubangian_Congo 0.75


I actually score differently than my mother, here is hers:

# Population Percent
1 Western_Semitic 88.3
2 Omotic 7.9
3 Southern_HG 2.61
4 Eastern_HG 1.08
5 Ubangian_Congo 0.11
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Old 11-02-2015, 01:29 PM
AFP
 
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I think that the calculators indicate your sub-Saharan African DNA comes from a variety of sources which makes sense it was customary to keep slaves from various cultures who spoke unintelligible languages to make it more difficult for them to communicate and organize a revolt.
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Old 11-02-2015, 01:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I think that the calculators indicate your sub-Saharan African DNA comes from a variety of sources which makes sense it was customary to keep slaves from various cultures who spoke unintelligible languages to make it more difficult for them to communicate and organize a revolt.
Which area do you think predominates for it? More Upper Guinean, or more Southern Bantu area? I always said I would be thrilled to find Beninese ancestry. I think the culture of the Yoruba and Fon are fascinating, due to voodoo. I actually know very little about pre-colonial Angola but I know of some of the tribes there.

A question to you about the Azores.. how substantial is the Belgian, Dutch and French input there? Surnames such as Dumont and Bettencourt are common there and those are definitely not Portuguese.
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:31 PM
AFP
 
6,894 posts, read 4,198,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
Which area do you think predominates for it? More Upper Guinean, or more Southern Bantu area? I always said I would be thrilled to find Beninese ancestry. I think the culture of the Yoruba and Fon are fascinating, due to voodoo. I actually know very little about pre-colonial Angola but I know of some of the tribes there.

A question to you about the Azores.. how substantial is the Belgian, Dutch and French input there? Surnames such as Dumont and Bettencourt are common there and those are definitely not Portuguese.
More upper Guinean I would say. Then I would guess southern Nigeria/Cameroon via Sao Tome. The East African I think comes from an earlier period from various sources including the Arabian slave trade, and a small amount from the Sephardic Jews that converted to Christianity and were absorbed into the gene pool. Three to Five percent sub-Saharan African admixture is found in all Jewish populations of the middle East/Europe/North Africa.

Flemish surnames are quite common my genealogical records are filled with them.

Bettencourt is quite common in parts of the Azores it's French a descendant of Maciot de Bethancourt from the Canary islands to Madeira island than the Azores but there are lines not descended from him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_B%C3%A9thencourt

Drumonde or Ormonde is Scottish it comes from Drummond.

Dutra is Flemish from De Utre from the city of Utrecht(flemish)

Silveira from Van der Haagen(Flemish)

Rosa(most lines) from Rouze(Flemish)

Goulart is (french) I believe it means glutton

Terra from van Aard (Flemish)

There are many others.
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Three to Five percent sub-Saharan African admixture is found in all Jewish populations of the middle East/Europe/North Africa.
It's not that high in European Jews. And it is higher in Middle Eastern Arabs than any Jews, except Yemenites.

I know from seeing Ashkenazi results that it is usually 1-2% "East African" (i.e. something Ethiopian-like) which is also present in southern Italians and any other group with a Levantine affinity (Cyprus, Sicily, Malta, southern Italy and the like).

So I probably have authentic SSA from the slave trade (West Africa) and then the ancient Ethiopian-like element from my Sicilian side.

About the surnames, I thought Drummond was French too. Another similar surname I have seen in some Portuguese is "Montrond" which is French as well.

Dumont is common in Cape Verde also.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:39 PM
AFP
 
6,894 posts, read 4,198,068 times
Reputation: 5867
Quote:
Originally Posted by virulentpeach View Post
It's not that high in European Jews. And it is higher in Middle Eastern Arabs than any Jews, except Yemenites.

I know from seeing Ashkenazi results that it is usually 1-2% "East African" (i.e. something Ethiopian-like) which is also present in southern Italians and any other group with a Levantine affinity (Cyprus, Sicily, Malta, southern Italy and the like).

So I probably have authentic SSA from the slave trade (West Africa) and then the ancient Ethiopian-like element from my Sicilian side.

About the surnames, I thought Drummond was French too. Another similar surname I have seen in some Portuguese is "Montrond" which is French as well.

Dumont is common in Cape Verde also.
Regarding Drummond I'm not certain about some lines having French origins. I've never heard of the surname Montrond.

This link discusses sub-Saharan African genes in Jewish populations.

Genes Tell Tale of Jewish Ties to Africa - Culture
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post

This link discusses sub-Saharan African genes in Jewish populations.

Genes Tell Tale of Jewish Ties to Africa - Culture
Going by Jewish results I have seen, this is not accurate. They certainly do not score SSA on FTDNA, 23andme or any other site like that. This sounds a bit outdated. The same would otherwise be true of other Mediterranean groups like Sicilians and Greeks.
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