U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 PM
 
8,856 posts, read 9,681,752 times
Reputation: 6709

Advertisements

Back n the 60's and still today some Blacks changed their names because they didn't want to use their "slave names'
Muhammad Ali changed his because I assume he is a decedent of the Kentucky Slave owner, Classius Clay. It seems the long held trend was for Black to reject their European heritage unless of course it can be proved that it was acquired legitimately.

 
Old 08-15-2013, 09:12 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,544,770 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
OP, does you family have a pedigree-based right to the family crest? You can trace your ancestry back to a person who legitimately had claim to the crest?

If not, I suggest that you hire a graphics art student out of the closet college and have them draw you up a new family crest. Figure out what is important to your family that can be drawn in the 4 quadrants, and pick out your colors, and get one done just for your family.
I'd recommend consulting someone who knows about heraldry first. I looked it up once, and the stuff that goes on a coat of arms all mean something. If you just had something designed because it looked good, I suspect someone with the knowledge would spot that it was made-up and meanigless straight away.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 10:39 PM
bjh
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
26,567 posts, read 22,880,770 times
Reputation: 119949
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkansasSlim View Post
Yesterday I received as a birthday gift the book "Finding Anyone, Anywhere, Anywhen" by Noel Montgomery Elliot. In the section about Coats of Arms he wrote the following paragraph; "It is important to know, however, that there is generally no such thing as a coat of arms or crest for a surname. Coats of arms were granted to individuals, so having the same surname as someone in the past that had a coat of arms does not mean you are a direct descendant of that person."

I did not know this. I had always assumed the C-o-A was awarded to the name but I now see it was for an individual. This is a very interesting and informative book with leads to many Web Sites, and many of them are very focused.
True. It was on the shield of a specific warrior to help him lead his men. During the chaos of battle they could locate him.
 
Old 08-16-2013, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Southern California
394 posts, read 1,301,031 times
Reputation: 503
It's interesting to note that Kate Middleton, and her family, didn't have a coat of arms until she was getting ready to be married. Her father commissioned it to denote the family's raised social status. She could have had her own coat of arms created, but her father wanted one that represented the whole family.

Royal wedding: Kate Middleton coat of arms unveiled

Coats of arms symbolize different things around the world and don't only represent people. Some towns have their own coat of arms, businesses do also. Here in the United States, our Great Seal of the United States has our national coat of arms on it. They aren't just assigned by some ancient heraldic organization anymore. As long as they have meaning to the person/organization/town, etc. who uses it, it's not meaningless.

There is at least one coat of arms attached to our family name, but I have no idea who awarded it or who it was awarded to or even if I'm directly descended from that person, so that particular coat of arms has no meaning for me. I'd much rather have one that reflects who I am or who my immediately family is.
 
Old 08-16-2013, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,019,825 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Back n the 60's and still today some Blacks changed their names because they didn't want to use their "slave names'
Muhammad Ali changed his because I assume he is a decedent of the Kentucky Slave owner, Classius Clay. It seems the long held trend was for Black to reject their European heritage unless of course it can be proved that it was acquired legitimately.
Ali changed his name because he didn't want the name of any slave owner - not necessarily because of who the man was.

The progenitors of both of Ali's family lines were white men (father's father's father's father, etc, mother's father's father's father, etc.). Cassius Clay and back on his father's side, Abe Grady of Ireland on his mother's side. Ali has actually visited Abe Grady's birthplace in Ireland twice.
 
Old 08-16-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,019,825 times
Reputation: 11780
Black people have always been sort of schizophrenic about their mixed origins. I will "admit" it if asked, but I do not identify with any heritage other than African.
 
Old 08-16-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Little Rock AR USA
2,457 posts, read 6,116,471 times
Reputation: 1863
Bottom line - it depends on the individual involved. A long time ago I was an Army recruiter and two examples have always stuck in my memory. One enlistee was 1/16 Native American and 15/16 white, but he insisted I enter Native American on his enlistment papers. The other guy was 1/2 Japanese and 1/2 white (and for what it's worth, looked Japanese) but he insisted I enter white on his enlistment. I had no problem with either, I just always thought it was interesting how each saw himself.
 
Old 08-17-2013, 09:19 AM
 
2,604 posts, read 3,805,620 times
Reputation: 2377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Ali changed his name because he didn't want the name of any slave owner - not necessarily because of who the man was.

The progenitors of both of Ali's family lines were white men (father's father's father's father, etc, mother's father's father's father, etc.). Cassius Clay and back on his father's side, Abe Grady of Ireland on his mother's side. Ali has actually visited Abe Grady's birthplace in Ireland twice.
Odessa Grady who was Muhammad Ali's mother had white ancestors on both her maternal and paternal lines. Abe Grady her grandfather was an Irishman who married her grandmother and this relationship had no connection with slavery. I think this is why Ali was happy to embrace this side of his ancestry.

Odessa Grady Clay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 09-03-2013, 01:49 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 7,812,990 times
Reputation: 995
I personall think they shouldn't. Especially because the way they were treated, just because they were Black or had some partial Black ancestry.
 
Old 09-05-2013, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Bishkek
1,917 posts, read 1,690,134 times
Reputation: 1225
Well I'm mixed, and I think I'm a part of 'All' the people in my pass. That one drop rule is 'Gone'. It was just a way for the white man to cover up his wrong doings.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top