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Old 01-18-2014, 12:02 AM
 
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Essays on the U.S. Color Line » Blog Archive » Myths Across the Color Line
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:02 AM
 
115 posts, read 94,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Where did you get the 5% statistic?

Certain things in our history were repeated until they became a mythology of sorts. While its true there was racial mixing during slavery, after while the antimiscegenation laws banned racial mixing and these were tightly enforced. Also keep in mind the late 1800s and 1900s up until the 1960s saw a huge influx of whites from Europe and that would have substantially lowered the number of whites with identifiable African dna. Go to places like the Northeast and the Midwest and a huge percentage of the whites have grandparents or great grandparents from wherever in Europe.

I personally think there's no such thing as passing. If someone LOOKS white, they genetically are MOSTLY European. You can't pass for something you're not.

However, the stories of passing remain big among some Blacks who have fantasies of passing (but they can't, they are obviously Black).
Hidden African Ancestry | The 23andMe Blog

Though found 3-4% of white Americans (those with mostly European descent) had some trace amounts of African DNA. Henry Louis Gates Jr. also has said based on his studies it's probably around 5% or so. Shriver did a study that came up with 30% of white Americans had African DNA, later he lowered that to 10%, then 5%. Unfortunately his first claim of 30% has been spread around the net a lot and people still reference it, despite him lowering that number.

Though nothing is conclusive it's looking quite likely around 4-5% of White Americans have a traceable amount of African DNA.

I completely disagree with passing as well. I recommend African American Lives 2 (it's on Amazon On Demand). It covers genealogy (and DNA testing) of some African Americans (most of which are famous or notable). One guy on the show could probably "pass" for white and he does have 30-35% European DNA, though he still had mostly African DNA. Don Cheadle, who is very dark skinned, had a good 20% or so European DNA.

African Americans skin color does not always suggest their ancestry. Though most African Americans do in fact have European DNA, some are much lighter skinned even if they have mostly African DNA. Some of this of course is that your ethnic DNA isn't always your physical traits...
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:20 AM
 
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So a personal update...

So a bit ago I took a DNA test an Ancestry DNA. When they updated their results (I'll call them 2.0 ethnicity results) they posted a blog claiming a big improvement in African DNA testing:
AncestryDNA Makes Scientific Breakthrough in West African Ethnicity

I had heard rumors of Native American, so thought I might find a bit of that. In my tests I came up about 1% African, the biggest part of that <1% West African (Senegal specifically). As well as some trace amounts of areas around there, and a bit North African.

Was definitely a bit surprising. My second minor surprise was I came up a couple percent or so West Asian.

I ran my DNA on gedmatch (I also paid to port it over to Family Tree DNA), in most of those I came up the same. anywhere from 0.8-2% African, a mix of North African and West African. West African specifically came up as a segment on my 18th Chromosome, about 6-8 cM.

I also came up a bit Middle Eastern in all those tests (actually 13% of FTDNA, though that seemed to be one of the least specific/accurate of the tests).

So I had my parents tested... My dad's side has the most recent American immigrant ancestors in my tree, Germans who came over in 1847 (and 1849). So I suspected the Middle Eastern might represent Continental European from his side, where they may branch out into the Middle Eastern areas (or the areas bordering it).

That proved to be correct. He came up about 3% of what you'd expect for Middle Eastern on AncestryDNA, 1% North African, 1% South Asian, 1% West Asian... and a bit higher than those on gedmatch.

My mom I had suspected might be where the West African came from since through her I have many Southern ancestors (from pretty much every Southern state all the way back to colonial times in every direction). She came up about 1% African... on Ancestry DNA the biggest part was Ivory Coast, then was Senegal and another West African area (no North African).

On gedmatch it's pretty much the same, though depending on the data set she comes up different amounts west and northeast african.

The 6-8 cM West/Sub-Saharan African segment on my chromsome painting ends up being about double at the same spot on her, 17 cM.

So though it's far from conclusive it's seeming much more likely that I do in fact have an African ancestor within 200-300 years that matches up to West Africa, which seems it's even more evidence (though again not conclusive) that I probably have a slave ancestor.

I'm hoping to have my grandma (my mother's mother) DNA tested (she is my last surviving grandparent), since that will narrow down on my tree where it came from.
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
10,381 posts, read 9,965,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Where did you get the 5% statistic?

Certain things in our history were repeated until they became a mythology of sorts. While its true there was racial mixing during slavery, after while the antimiscegenation laws banned racial mixing and these were tightly enforced. Also keep in mind the late 1800s and 1900s up until the 1960s saw a huge influx of whites from Europe and that would have substantially lowered the number of whites with identifiable African dna. Go to places like the Northeast and the Midwest and a huge percentage of the whites have grandparents or great grandparents from wherever in Europe.

I personally think there's no such thing as passing. If someone LOOKS white, they genetically are MOSTLY European. You can't pass for something you're not.

However, the stories of passing remain big among some Blacks who have fantasies of passing (but they can't, they are obviously Black).
Several different sources have come up with the 5% figure.

Researchers at 23andMe looked at the genetic ancestry of about 78,000 customers likely to consider themselves as entirely of European ancestry and found that somewhere between 3 percent and 4 percent of those people have “hidden” African ancestry.
The percent of African ancestry is relatively low with the majority of individuals having just 0.5 percent to 0.75 percent — which suggests that those people have an African ancestor who lived about six generations, or about 200 years, ago.

Our Hidden African Ancestry | The 23andMe Blog

Skin color and genetic admixture do not correlate on a sliding scale. Children of mixed black/white unions can vary greatly in skin color in the same family. However, the people who were "passing" were considered black because of the "one drop rule."
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Several different sources have come up with the 5% figure.

Skin color and genetic admixture do not correlate on a sliding scale. Children of mixed black/white unions can vary greatly in skin color in the same family. However, the people who were "passing" were considered black because of the "one drop rule."
Those were ignorant people and they are dead no, those tried to enforce the one drop rule.

As DNA testing shows, everyone has one drop of something else in them. Some other ethnicity or race.

I'm 1% Indian/Pakistani. I don't think being 1% Indian/Pakistani qualifies me to jump up and down saying I'm Indian/Pakistani. It's a part of my genetic background (a small part) but that's that. From various African groups (Benin/Togo, Nigeria, Mali, Ghana, Senegal, Mozambique) I am 80% African, 19% European (English, Spanish, Western European, Eastern European, Russian, Italian, Scandinavian, and Irish), and 1% South Asian. I look Black because I am mostly Black.

Today, if a white person were to do a dna test and find any amount of African or any other race dna, no one is going to go out and declare themselves that race.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
10,381 posts, read 9,965,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Those were ignorant people and they are dead no, those tried to enforce the one drop rule.

As DNA testing shows, everyone has one drop of something else in them. Some other ethnicity or race.

I'm 1% Indian/Pakistani. I don't think being 1% Indian/Pakistani qualifies me to jump up and down saying I'm Indian/Pakistani. It's a part of my genetic background (a small part) but that's that. From various African groups (Benin/Togo, Nigeria, Mali, Ghana, Senegal, Mozambique) I am 80% African, 19% European (English, Spanish, Western European, Eastern European, Russian, Italian, Scandinavian, and Irish), and 1% South Asian. I look Black because I am mostly Black.

Today, if a white person were to do a dna test and find any amount of African or any other race dna, no one is going to go out and declare themselves that race.
However, you do acknowledge all the bits and pieces of your DNA, do you not? I think that is the point.

On the issue of "passing", the point I was making is that there is not a direct correlation between skin color and the percentage of admixture. You cannot look at someone and deduce the percentage, except perhaps on the far ends of the spectrum.

Also, I think it would help if we look at admixture results as telling us about our ancestral geography rather than race, ethnicity, or skin color.

Some people do indeed identify more with their minority DNA. That depends on the society in which they are raised. In that regard, I prefer ethnicity rather than race, because ethnicity to me implies more than just skin color.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Forest Grove, OR
732 posts, read 625,929 times
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I would be surprised if a DNA test found any African race in me but I suppose anything is possible. I recently confirmed that we have quite a few latino ancestors in my family tree, ironically the side that has the most blonde/blue eyed people. I should take one of those tests. Now I'm curious!
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:29 PM
 
Location: grnd isle
1,189 posts, read 384,497 times
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upon looking at my makeup from ancestry dna.
i got :
98 % europe
2% west asia
o% asia
0% native american
0% all of africa
0% pacific island

but out of that 98 europe
68% british
13% ireland
1% russia
4% scandivian
and then a bunch of 1 in europe like france italy turkey greece

so basically i.m roman, celtric, ango saxon, maybe some norman which is typical r1b1
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:15 PM
 
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I just don't believe that most white people are "pure" and most black people are "mixed."
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:08 PM
 
334 posts, read 71,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
However, you do acknowledge all the bits and pieces of your DNA, do you not? I think that is the point.

On the issue of "passing", the point I was making is that there is not a direct correlation between skin color and the percentage of admixture. You cannot look at someone and deduce the percentage, except perhaps on the far ends of the spectrum.

Also, I think it would help if we look at admixture results as telling us about our ancestral geography rather than race, ethnicity, or skin color.

Some people do indeed identify more with their minority DNA. That depends on the society in which they are raised. In that regard, I prefer ethnicity rather than race, because ethnicity to me implies more than just skin color.
Right, MOST white Americans ARE in fact mixed. Also even before conquest of the New World with Christopher Columbus tons of mixing had gone on in the Old World. So mixing is nothing new or nothing special. It's always been around.
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