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Marissa 23,
I'm not familiar with Polish history at all, but in general, the top nobility refrained from working, they tried only work for government. Getting a professional degree would imply that they probably had need for money and were unable fully rely on their land. Poles are harsh, snobby, easily offended people who remember offenses for very long time, so it might be difficult to make you other family members to communicate. Archives might help, but probably not all of them survived WWII.
Nj85,
I'm not sure that in Poland a Jew could ever obtain high military rank.
The only way to learn more about the family is to do extensive research. People spend decades researching their ancestors.
Vilnius (Vilna) was in the Russian Empire during the 19th century. Prior to that it was Lithuania. Between WW1 & WW11 it was Lithuania again. Then came WW11 & after that was in the USSR until the break-up of that country. Today Vilnius is in Lithuania.
There are many census records done by Russia & prior to that (in the 18th century) by Lithuania. There are also tax records & many others.
If your family was Jewish than try searching the Lithuanian databases at www.jewishgen.org and also join the discussion list of JewishGen.
I can't contact some family members not because of the characteristics you described, but for other reasons. Like I wrote before, it's a long story. Plus, they're not 100% Polish. If it was a wealthy noble family with their own estate, I would think the photo would've been taken there. I don't think they would've gone to a photo studio. I read that after the three partitions of Poland a lot of noble families lost their privileges and fortunes. So, they definitely had to work for a living.
These are close relatives of my great-grandfather. The photo was taken between 1900-1910 in one of the largest cities in Central Europe in a photo studio. I was told they could've been related to lower or even mid-ranking nobility. What do you think? Can someone tell someone's social background based on photos alone?
Can't tell by the photo, but the fact that they actually had their photo taken in a studio says they were of some means.
And now reading some of these responses I could be wrong! Of my European people at that time, I can only think of a couple of families who had studio photos, and they were upper class. The photos I have of my American farmer ancestors were taken at home, they were not upper class.
I'd opine that the OP's family is from the higher professional classes, which is to say gentry without titles but with enough money to afford an excellent education. It's also worth mentioning that at that time, and in that part of the world, it was perfectly normal for the nobility to assume posts in the civil service or uniformed military, provided that those posts were sufficiently high. It was considered to be more honorable to serve the State than to be in private business, or to pursue a traditional profession such as medicine or law. Noblemen tended to hold military officer rank, even if they never formally served. Some minor form of noble heredity was often necessary to become an officer, but at the lower ranks, the distinction between outright nobility and mere gentry was often blurred.
I can't contact some family members not because of the characteristics you described,...
I read that after the three partitions of Poland a lot of noble families lost their privileges and fortunes. So, they definitely had to work for a living.
- Don't feel offended, I basically described my father's line and myself
Yes, they did, so they probably were living in city, working, and the mother was a kind of house governor, probably were not exactly struggling with money but did count them.
not to offend, but take a close look at the hem of the mother's robe. The dress peeking out from under looks somewhat "shabby", its like as though she covered up whatever dress she had with, perhaps, a borrowed cloak. also, she's not wearing any jewelry.....
my guess, a somewhat "struggling" family who wanted to leave a dignified reminder of their time in this world
Reminds me of pictures of my g-grandparents. On my father's side, g-grandma was wearing a worn old dress, in front of a chicken coop..On my mother's side, g-grandma was dressed in rich velvet with Edwardian lace, a long gold chain with a watch, and diamond earrings (which I have inherited). I'm equally proud of them both!
I can't get the other picture to print, but you get the idea, clothes certainly did indicate status!
Last edited by MaryleeII; 02-24-2014 at 06:42 PM..
They didn't come to the US. The man in the uniform died during WWI. I don't know what happened to the others. Both men are likely my great-grandfather's brothers. He was born in 1886 and graduated from medical school in 1915. He was a pharmacist. It's a long story but I'm estranged from some relatives, therefore I can't get a lot of information. I'm thinking of going to the archives in that country.
I've heard conflicting stories about that family. One is that at least one of my great-great-grandparents descended from nobility. The other that my great-grandfather's father was in charge of one the city's water pumps, and that the family was urban low class.I'm not looking for nobles in my tree, but I'd just like to find out about them. Also, can you tell someone's social class from that time period based on their facial features?
My family comes from Ukraine, Austria, England, Romania, and Russia. Ancestry.com has international sites that you can check based on the country and you can site up for the free trial as well just make sure to cancel or they will charge you. Just realize that alot of the time other countries hold record for others. Based on border changes Poland held a ton of the records for the part of my family that came from austria. Church records do hold alot as well. the easiest thing that you can do is start with your parents birth records and work backwards. On those it shows the parents. Then keep going back. Death records hold facts as well and frequently when someone is buried, they are surrounded by other family members. Good Luck !
Photos can also be misleading until you find out the full story. I have a photo of one set of Great Great Grandparents and was aghast at how plain they looked, thinking that they were poor. As it turned out, they weren't poor, only Quakers, who didn't go in for ornamentation and ostentatiousness.
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Upper-middle class
The mother is certainly used to a quality life.
