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Old 04-28-2014, 08:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
We were posting at the same time.
Yes, I knew about the ranges, just not the "trace" thing that just posted.

I know that the Celts from Ireland and Wales are supposedly of Iberian origin, but somewhere in there it says this test really just gives you the last several hundred to a thousand years, not thousands of years.
No there not of Iberian origin and that won't come out on a genetic test.

 
Old 04-28-2014, 08:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I notice 13 and 14 are Irish. Some Irish are from Spanish ancestry. I suspect that is a stong possibility as Ireland like the USA is a nation of people from many nations.


I also would not rule out the German side. Germany was settled much by Aryans (Iranians) from Indo-European stock as were some of the Iberian people. It would not surprise me if German DNA and Iberian often the same.
There are Blond Spaniards. Iranians and Germans. Actually many Iranians are Blond with Blue eyes.

As Germans, Iranians and Spanish are predominantly Indo-European, Shared DNA should be expected.






It seems that in the past there was quite a bit of mixing between Germans and Spaniards. It is inevitable there will shared DNA between the 2 groups.



SOURCE
No Irish are not of Spanish origin. This is a common error that people make. A bit of mythology being used as fact. The Irish cluster with Scots and Orcadians on dna plots which is not strange as they are neighbours afterall.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
No Irish are not of Spanish origin. This is a common error that people make. A bit of mythology being used as fact. The Irish cluster with Scots and Orcadians on dna plots which is not strange as they are neighbours afterall.
While the story of sailors from the Spanish Armada are myth, there have been Spanish Immigrants to Ireland. Some families living in Ireland for many generations are Spanish. It is possible for a Person"s "Irish" ancestors to be Spanish. Same as some Spanish families have Irish ancestors.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While the story of sailors from the Spanish Armada are myth, there have been Spanish Immigrants to Ireland. Some families living in Ireland for many generations are Spanish. It is possible for a Person"s "Irish" ancestors to be Spanish. Same as some Spanish families have Irish ancestors.
It's not showing up on dna tests. I suppose their could be Spanish immigrants to any European country it's just that there is no strong Spanish connection to Ireland despite the myths. The Irish cluster along with Britain on autosomal dna testing and show up as Northern European.

There is also no known Irish families with particular connections to Spain. My ancestry is from Western Ireland and the mid South in Ireland. I'd be interested if you have more information on this? The Spanish connection is a bit of a myth. It's a bit like people saying Black Irish are from Spain when any Irish person with darker colouring is just the same as any other Irish person genetically.

Last edited by Bernie20; 04-28-2014 at 11:05 PM..
 
Old 04-28-2014, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
It's not showing up on dna tests. I suppose their could be Spanish immigrants to any European country it's just that there is no strong Spanish connection to Ireland despite the myths. The Irish cluster along with Britain on autosomal dna testing and show up as Northern European.
My point being is the OP's ancestors from Ireland might not have been Irish. Just because the Family came from Ireland and had Irish names does not mean they were 100% Irish.

I should have been clearer. Sort of like here in the USA Most Americans have no Native American DNA

You can take a DNA sample from most Americans and technically they will have no distinct American DNA;

Although in Ireland the Majority will be Irish there are some in Ireland who do not have all Irish DNA, Maybe even some with no Irish DNA.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My point being is the OP's ancestors from Ireland might not have been Irish. Just because the Family came from Ireland and had Irish names does not mean they were 100% Irish.

I should have been clearer. Sort of like here in the USA Most Americans have no Native American DNA

You can take a DNA sample from most Americans and technically they will have no distinct American DNA;

Although in Ireland the Majority will be Irish there are some in Ireland who do not have all Irish DNA, Maybe even some with no Irish DNA.
Thanks Woodrow. I understand now.
 
Old 04-29-2014, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
No there not of Iberian origin and that won't come out on a genetic test.
Yes, they are. At least two leading geneticists believe it so based on their genetic studies:

Quote:
In two recently published books, Blood of the Isles, by Brian Sykes and The Origins of the British, by Stephen Oppenheimer, both authors state that according to genetic evidence, most Welsh people, like most Britons, descend from the Iberian Peninsula, as a result of different migrations that took place during the Mesolithic and the Neolithic eras, and which laid the foundations for the present-day populations in the British Isles, indicating an ancient relationship among the populations of Atlantic Europe.[23][24][25] According to Stephen Oppenheimer 96% of lineages in Llangefni in north Wales derive from Iberia. Genetic research on the Y-chromosome has shown that the Welsh, like the Irish, share a large proportion of their ancestry with the Basques of Northern Spain and South Western France, although the Welsh have a greater presumed Neolithic input than both the Irish and the Basques.[26] Genetic marker R1b averages from 83–89% amongst the Welsh.[26][27]
Welsh people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
This led to writers, such as Stephen Oppenheimer and Bryan Sykes, to conclude that the majority of Irish people (and indeed all natives of the British Isles) primarily descend from an "Iberian refugium" population bottleneck dating back to the last ice age.[22][23]
Irish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suppose it's possible their studies are subject to debate, I am not claiming to be an expert in genetics, but the fact that two leading geneticists support this theory certainly means it's a strong possibility and not just a "myth".
 
Old 04-30-2014, 12:02 AM
 
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That is where a lot of the erroneous information comes from. They are older studies and conclusions were made which were later proven to be incorrect. Those studies were based on the assumption that R1b came from the Iberian Ice Age Refuge. R1b is a y chromosome that is inherited from father to son. The reason for the Iberian connection with Celts was made because both areas have a lot of R1b. Later studies have found that R1b is not from Iberia but came to Europe from the East and is too young to have been from the Ice Age Refuge.. Half of Western Europe is R1b. Later studies have found that R1b has different clades and the clades in Iberia and Ireland/Britain are different. So yes the theory is no longer given any credence

Also on autosomal testing the Irish cluster with Britain and Northern Europe showing that there is no close Iberian connection.

Oppenheimer and Sykes are indeed incorrect. There is no particular connection between Ireland/Britain and Iberia than between Iberia and the Netherlands for example.

There is plenty of up to date information on the Net for anyone with an interest in the subject. A lot of people still blog on this Basque / Celtic connection because once something is stated people just run with it without checking and it just becomes fact for many.

I've been reading about the subject for years because I find it fascinating.

If you read the Wiki entry that you linked for the Irish it even goes into a little detail about the error in linking R1b to the Ice Age Refuge. The Wikipedia sections on genetics are very limited and have not been updated with more accurate information for quite some time.

Last edited by Bernie20; 04-30-2014 at 12:16 AM..
 
Old 04-30-2014, 12:42 AM
 
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Here's a map or R1b and subclades in Europe.



http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...mplicated.html
 
Old 04-30-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
That is where a lot of the erroneous information comes from. They are older studies and conclusions were made which were later proven to be incorrect.
It's not that old, I know Sykes' work was published within the last ten years. If it was really that inaccurate, you'd think they wouldn't still be in print.

Quote:
There is plenty of up to date information on the Net for anyone with an interest in the subject. A lot of people still blog on this Basque / Celtic connection because once something is stated people just run with it without checking and it just becomes fact for many.
I'm not referencing blogs here...
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