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Old 04-25-2014, 09:50 AM
 
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So I just got my Ancestry DNA results, and most was not surprising.

51% European West
16% Scandinavian
14% Ireland
6% Great Britain
6% Iberian
(others all 2% or less, and can be accounted for by one person here or there, generations back)

But I was surprised to find that I'm 6% Iberian (which would be from Spain or Portugal). It also shows that I'm only 6% Great Britain, when I know I have a LOT more English and Scottish heritage than that. I guess that discrepancy can be accounted for by the fact that lots of other European groups invaded or emigrated to England in the last thousand years or so.

But 6% Iberian is high enough to be in the last few generations, I figure. As someone pointed out in another thread, if we go to my great-great-grandparents, there are 16 of them, and I presumably got 1/16 or 6.25% of my DNA from each of them (give or take).

So you would think that one of these twice-great grandparents must have been Iberian, or two of them could have been about half Iberian, right?

I have records on that whole generation, and on several lines, I have records back to the 1600s and 1700s. I need some hypotheses as to who might have been Spanish or Portuguese.

Great-Great-Grandparents:

1. Mr Totally Swedish
2. Miss Totally Swedish
3. Mr Completely Swedish
4. Miss Completely Swedish
5. Mr Totally German (Bavarian)
6. Miss Totally German (Bavarian)
7. Mr Completely German (Prussia)
8. Miss Completely German (Prussia)
9. Mr Nicholson (born USA 1850, parents Mr Nicholson and Miss McLane, both born in USA, lines in US back to late 1700s)
10. Miss Rexon (born in England, both parents born in England, all Grandparents born in England)
11. Mr Watson (born in USA 1849, parents Mr Watson and Miss Pine, both born in USA)
12. Miss Dill (born in USA 1856, parents Mr Dill and Miss Hendrickson, both born in USA)
13. Mr Stewart (born in Ireland, Parents were Mr Stewart from Scotland and Miss Barrett from Ireland)
14. Miss Lardner (born in Ireland, parents both born in Ireland)
15. Mr Whipple (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Whipple and Miss Stathem, both with lines in the US, back to colonial times)
16. Miss Friant (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Friant and Miss Maul, both born in US, with lines in US back to colonial times)

So I guess for our Iberians, we can rule out the first 8. I think an Iberian would emigrate to the US, not to Sweden or Germany, where people were leaving for the US.
Nicholson seems to be a name that could be English, Scottish, or German
McLane is clearly Scottish or Irish (though Miss McLane's mother was Miss Rogers, so perhaps she was a Rodrigues?)
Watson seems to be English/Anglo-Saxon or Scottish
Pine could be anything--English, French, German, but maybe Pina or Pinho could have been Spanish or Portuguese and they Anglicized it?
Dill seems to be German, Dutch, or English/Anglo-Saxon
Hendrickson seems to be Dutch, English, or Scottish
Whipple and Stathem have always been presumed to be English colonists, and my records go into the 1600s in NJ and Connecticut (Collier, Hubbard, Loomer, Palmer) But Miss Stathem's mother had a very German name and the lore is that she was the granddaughter of a Hessian soldier who settled here after the Revolution.
Friant could have been English/Anglo-Saxon, French, or German
Maul could have been German or Norman/French

Anyone have any ideas?

 
Old 04-25-2014, 01:52 PM
 
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https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ection=results

This site may be of interest to you. For example:

"Aguilar - I: Nordic (Northwestern European) Origin. In 409 AD, the Suebi (a Baltic people) and the Vandals (an Eastern Germanic people) established themselves on the Iberian Peninsula. Less than 100 years later the Visigoths (an Eastern Germanic people) conquered Iberia, after they had conquered Rome, and settled there in the year 507 AD. The Visigoths’ ancient homeland was Sweden, which they had left around Christ's time. These three Nordic peoples brought Haplogroup I and sub-haplogroups I1 and I2 into Iberia. 13% of modern day Iberians share this origin. "


I guess that if Swedes could come to Iberia, than some Iberians could have ended up in Sweden.

In my two decades of research I have found that people didn't stay in one place as much as we think that they did in times past. People moved around for business reasons, travelling pedlars, etc.

Also, consider that there may have been an adopted child in the DNA mix somewhere along the line.


Last edited by daliowa; 04-25-2014 at 01:57 PM.. Reason: edit
 
Old 04-25-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque NM
2,953 posts, read 4,507,640 times
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Don't take the percentages literally. It could be a mistake. DNA from the far west of Europe (from Iberia up to the British Isles) is very intermixed. Lots of people with predominantly British ancestry are showing some Iberian results too. It doesn't mean you have an Iberian ancestor.

OTOH, there's always a possibility that you have an Iberian ancestor in your tree that you don't know about. I know a guy in England who believed he was 100% British, but did a yDNA test and found he matched a Spanish surname. He knew his paternal grandmother had spent her teenage years with her parents in Gibraltar, and was pregnant at an early age. Apparently there was a shotgun wedding to an Englishman, who he thought was his grandfather and who passed down his name to him. But now he knows he had a Spanish grandfather.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
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There's a few things to consider here. For starters, the percentages are usually given in ranges, not a hard and fast number. Did you do your test with Ancestry.com? If so, clicking on one of the region percentages will expand it for more information in which they'll probably show you a range of more like 0-20%. I have an estimated 5% Europe West (my German ancestry) but the range is 0-20%. So the Iberian percentage you've got could actually be smaller (or even larger) than 6% - theoretically, you could have 0% but it's just showing up as "noise" - like an anomaly.

Secondly, because autosomal DNA is inherited randomly, having 6% of something doesn't mean it must have come from a great great grandparent. It's entirely possible it came from an ancestor even further back in your tree but you just happened to inherit more DNA from them than you might expect.

Lastly, take a look at the map Ancestry.com provides for each region - what they define as the "Iberian Peninsula" is mostly Spain and Portugal but may also include France, Italy, Switzerland, lower parts of the UK, and even tips of North Africa. The celts, especially of Wales, are said to be of Iberian origin, so it's possible this 6% is actually coming from a British source and the test results are interpreting it a little differently.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 02:53 PM
 
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I just noticed that even though I'm coming up with 6% for both Great Britain and Iberian Peninsula, the Iberian is falling under "trace" because the range is only 0%-15%, with the average of 6%, while for Great Britain, it's 0%-21%, with the average of 6%.

The "trace" ones are less reliable. But I still think 6% sound like something pretty significant.


I'm also reading more about the control samples they test us against. Here, I was thinking I literally had 6% of my DNA of British origin, 16% of Scandinavian origin, etc. But these are only correlated with people who in the control groups who are natives of those regions, and they only had to show their grandparents were from the region. It would be better if the control group had to prove ancestry from that region back many generations.

So 16% of my DNA is not "Swedish." It's just that 16% of my DNA is similar to that of people who live in Sweden now, who have parents and grandparents also from Sweden. Who's to say their grandparents didn't move around?

Maybe that's why I show up as having more Western Europe DNA than the average person who's a native of Western Europe!

Kind of disappointed. I thought it would be like my dog's DNA test: she's clearly 50% American Eskimo dog, 25% Chihuahua, etc. Maybe I should send my next sample to the canine DNA company?
 
Old 04-25-2014, 02:59 PM
 
9,209 posts, read 18,039,121 times
Reputation: 21950
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
There's a few things to consider here. For starters, the percentages are usually given in ranges, not a hard and fast number. Did you do your test with Ancestry.com? If so, clicking on one of the region percentages will expand it for more information in which they'll probably show you a range of more like 0-20%. I have an estimated 5% Europe West (my German ancestry) but the range is 0-20%. So the Iberian percentage you've got could actually be smaller (or even larger) than 6% - theoretically, you could have 0% but it's just showing up as "noise" - like an anomaly.

Secondly, because autosomal DNA is inherited randomly, having 6% of something doesn't mean it must have come from a great great grandparent. It's entirely possible it came from an ancestor even further back in your tree but you just happened to inherit more DNA from them than you might expect.
I get it, but figured on the law of averages.

Lastly, take a look at the map Ancestry.com provides for each region - what they define as the "Iberian Peninsula" is mostly Spain and Portugal but may also include France, Italy, Switzerland, lower parts of the UK, and even tips of North Africa. The celts, especially of Wales, are said to be of Iberian origin, so it's possible this 6% is actually coming from a British source and the test results are interpreting it a little differently.
We were posting at the same time.
Yes, I knew about the ranges, just not the "trace" thing that just posted.

I know that the Celts from Ireland and Wales are supposedly of Iberian origin, but somewhere in there it says this test really just gives you the last several hundred to a thousand years, not thousands of years.
 
Old 04-25-2014, 04:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracysam View Post
i just noticed that even though i'm coming up with 6% for both great britain and iberian peninsula, the iberian is falling under "trace" because the range is only 0%-15%, with the average of 6%, while for great britain, it's 0%-21%, with the average of 6%.

The "trace" ones are less reliable. But i still think 6% sound like something pretty significant.


I'm also reading more about the control samples they test us against. Here, i was thinking i literally had 6% of my dna of british origin, 16% of scandinavian origin, etc. But these are only correlated with people who in the control groups who are natives of those regions, and they only had to show their grandparents were from the region. It would be better if the control group had to prove ancestry from that region back many generations.

So 16% of my dna is not "swedish." it's just that 16% of my dna is similar to that of people who live in sweden now, who have parents and grandparents also from sweden. Who's to say their grandparents didn't move around?

Maybe that's why i show up as having more western europe dna than the average person who's a native of western europe!

Kind of disappointed. I thought it would be like my dog's dna test: She's clearly 50% american eskimo dog, 25% chihuahua, etc. maybe i should send my next sample to the canine dna company?

rofl !
 
Old 04-26-2014, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
I just noticed that even though I'm coming up with 6% for both Great Britain and Iberian Peninsula, the Iberian is falling under "trace" because the range is only 0%-15%, with the average of 6%, while for Great Britain, it's 0%-21%, with the average of 6%.

The "trace" ones are less reliable. But I still think 6% sound like something pretty significant.


I'm also reading more about the control samples they test us against. Here, I was thinking I literally had 6% of my DNA of British origin, 16% of Scandinavian origin, etc. But these are only correlated with people who in the control groups who are natives of those regions, and they only had to show their grandparents were from the region. It would be better if the control group had to prove ancestry from that region back many generations.

So 16% of my DNA is not "Swedish." It's just that 16% of my DNA is similar to that of people who live in Sweden now, who have parents and grandparents also from Sweden. Who's to say their grandparents didn't move around?

Maybe that's why I show up as having more Western Europe DNA than the average person who's a native of Western Europe!

Kind of disappointed. I thought it would be like my dog's DNA test: she's clearly 50% American Eskimo dog, 25% Chihuahua, etc. Maybe I should send my next sample to the canine DNA company?
Have you tried uploading your DNA raw data to Gedmatch.com? They give a whole bunch of different admixtures, all for free, that might give you some different results. Additionally, FamilyTreeDNA will allow Ancestry.com testers to upload their DNA for $69.

This is how my DNA results from Ancestry.com compared to the different Gedmatch admixtures: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=4&output=html

I tend to get some strong Mediterranean results which correlates with my Italian heritage, suggesting the 31% Italy/Greece result from Ancestry.com is pretty accurate. However, I would not say Gedmatch results are necessarily more accurate than Ancestry.com's because they also give me from high-ish Asian results which I don't think are very accurate - but it's free so can't hurt to have a look. I've heard there's a lot more people in FamilyTreeDNA's database which means the control group will be bigger and possibly more accurate, but it costs $69 to transfer the data.

Quote:
I know that the Celts from Ireland and Wales are supposedly of Iberian origin, but somewhere in there it says this test really just gives you the last several hundred to a thousand years, not thousands of years.
That's true but just like you could carry 6% from a 6x great grandparent even though statistically, you probably wouldn't, I figure there's always a chance of older dna squeaking through. Especially if, for example, you have a Welsh ancestor who happened to be totally or almost totally celtic in origin, their ancestry didn't mix much with anything else like the English did - I tend to think they could pass on a small amount of older celtic dna. Just a thought.
 
Old 04-26-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,673 posts, read 2,481,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
But 6% Iberian is high enough to be in the last few generations, I figure. As someone pointed out in another thread, if we go to my great-great-grandparents, there are 16 of them, and I presumably got 1/16 or 6.25% of my DNA from each of them (give or take).

So you would think that one of these twice-great grandparents must have been Iberian, or two of them could have been about half Iberian, right?
I don't think that's a valid conclusion. Ancestry says:

Quote:
Your DNA test results also provides information thatís more relevant and recentótargeting your family history a few hundred or even a thousand years ago
AncestryDNA
 
Old 04-26-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I notice 13 and 14 are Irish. Some Irish are from Spanish ancestry. I suspect that is a stong possibility as Ireland like the USA is a nation of people from many nations.


I also would not rule out the German side. Germany was settled much by Aryans (Iranians) from Indo-European stock as were some of the Iberian people. It would not surprise me if German DNA and Iberian often the same.
There are Blond Spaniards. Iranians and Germans. Actually many Iranians are Blond with Blue eyes.

As Germans, Iranians and Spanish are predominantly Indo-European, Shared DNA should be expected.






It seems that in the past there was quite a bit of mixing between Germans and Spaniards. It is inevitable there will shared DNA between the 2 groups.

Quote:
The Period of Charles V in Germany: Maximilian was succeeded by his grandson, Charles V {1519 - 1556}. Besides Germany and Austria, the Hapsburgs now ruled a vast empire that included Bohemia, Moravia, Hungary, Transylvania, Italy, Sicily, Spain, Alsace, Lorraine, Burgundy, Luxemburg, and the Low Countries. Charles bestowed the Austria possessions of the House of Hapsburg on his brother Ferdinand, who may be said to have founded the monarchy of Austria-Hungary. In his reign came the sale of papal indulgences in Germany that touched off the Reformation, under the leadership of Martin Luther. The German peasants emboldened by the revolutionary mood of the Reformation, revolted unsuccessfully {1524 - 1525} against feudal oppression. The Peace of Augsburg {1555}, with which the struggle between the Catholics and the Protestants was for the time terminated, granted the Lutheran states the right to establish Protestant worship.

In 1555 Charles V abdicated; he assigned Spain and the Netherlands to his son Philip II and turned over the empire and the Austrian lands to his brother, Ferdinand I. The Roman Catholics began a counter-reformation during the reign of Ferdinand {1556 - 1564}. While Matthias {1612 - 1619} was on the throne, his cousin Ferdinand was crowned king of Bohemia in 1617, and the attempt to force the Protestants of that country to accept him as their ruler led to the outbreak of the Thirty Years' War {1618 - 1648}. The struggle closed in the reign of Ferdinand III, by the Peace of Westphalia. Germany by this treaty was divided into over two hundred independent states, which owed only a nominal support to the emperor and became in fact simply petty monarchies. The imperial authority was completely wrecked and never afterward recovered. The war had devastated and impoverished Germany beyond measure, national feeling had been crushed, and all unity had been destroyed.
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