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Old 08-23-2015, 03:56 PM
 
62 posts, read 67,958 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
Unfortunately, if you are from the deep south, especially a long, long time, there are probably some pretty horrific things.

I'd like to think that people don't judge me because of something my Great-great-great-great-great Charleston grandparents did.
I tend to be factual about it, saying "yeaaah, they did" to any sneering remarks about my slave owning ancestors and then look at the speaker silently with raised brows. I mean - WTF am I supposed to do about it?

I do find it interesting that when land began to open on the other side of the Ohio, causing many of my Virginian and Maryland ancestors to pack up and head west, they seemed to have just dropped their slave holding views and adapted to a different lifestyle. If they were adamant about holding on to a regime that gave them the right to own human flesh, would they have left? I think it was something they were allowed to do in one place. An economic incentive to relocate would mean they couldn't be slave holders in that state or territory, so they weren't. One of my lines might have had qualms about the system, or maybe there was something more personal. The people they held as slaves in South Carolina moved with them to Illinois and became free. I have located a number of black people who carry the same surname as my ancestor in that part of the country. Unfortunately, communication has been difficult or they don't know their family history. I'd really like to find out what was behind all that.

Another thing is that when the Civil War broke out, my ancestors who were born in slave holding states, or whose parents were and once owned slaves, and now lived in Ohio or Illinois or Indiana - they fought on the Union side. It seems they hewed to the dynamics of their current home, not their ancestral ties. That's why I view my slave holding ancestors as being expedient, not evil. Viewed through a modern moral lens, that expediency could be viewed as repulsive, but in that time, in those places, it wasn't. And I can't change that, therefore, I'm not going to feel guilty about it.
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Old 08-23-2015, 04:30 PM
 
15,440 posts, read 10,365,951 times
Reputation: 15677
Sorry, I don't see the dilemma. Since Mr RabbitSong doesn't want to part with the items, I would put them in a box and store them in the attic.
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Old 08-23-2015, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
9,795 posts, read 14,634,419 times
Reputation: 10065
No one alive today is responsible for the distant past. When you think about it, if you go far back in time everyone will descend from slave owners of some sort somewhere in the world. Slavery was practiced everywhere on earth, even several Native American civilizations practiced slavery with themselves before the Europeans arrived. Same thing in Africa.

Modern people simply assume the past, but no one today is responsible for what happened. Especially when its something that was simply acceptable for most of Human history.
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Old 08-23-2015, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,476 posts, read 17,908,006 times
Reputation: 34172
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
No one alive today is responsible for the distant past. When you think about it, if you go far back in time everyone will descend from slave owners of some sort somewhere in the world. Slavery was practiced everywhere on earth, even several Native American civilizations practiced slavery with themselves before the Europeans arrived. Same thing in Africa.

Modern people simply assume the past, but no one today is responsible for what happened. Especially when its something that was simply acceptable for most of Human history.
If the post was simply about slavery, I'd agree. But the post deals with racism apart from slavery and with items that were in existence a century after emancipation. With that being written, there are people alive today who supported and helped to implement inherently racist segregation systems in this country. Not that the OP is one of those people, but, still, I can understand why she'd feel uncomfortable owning such materials. Note, I'd similarly understand if descendants of a Gestapo agent or Nazi death camp worker wanted nothing to do with their ancestors' "memorabilia."
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Old 08-23-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,042 posts, read 83,864,110 times
Reputation: 114270
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitsong View Post
Mr. RabbitSong and I are trying to get all of our family photos and documents combined into one location. He is a packrat, and I think he came by it honestly. I don't think his mother ever threw anything away! Both of his parents have passed away, so we have a lot of STUFF!

Here's my dilemma. We know that his mother's side of the family owned slaves. Her father was the last in a long line of farmers. Being in the South, we were aware that we'd find slaves. Some of the little things we have found in her belongings are some extremely racist post-cards, posters, newspaper clippings, etc. (Think of all the little figurines showing young black children eating watermelons, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Remus, etc.) I knew my father-in-law was racist, but this is new for me. It's really tarnished my opinion of my sweet mother-in-law. I was not raised like that, and in fact, my parents made sure to point out how things were wrong. I really would love to throw these out, but he doesn't. It's a part of the past that I'd rather see gone. Mr. RabbitSong isn't racist, but because they belonged to his parents, he just doesn't want to part with them.

Any thoughts? How do you handle the not-so-great parts of your family history?
There are people who collect such things. I remember seeing on TV a museum down in Florida run by a black woman who collected and displayed racist materials. She had a Pin-The-Watermelon-Slice on the N***** game, for example, that was a picture of a grinning black guy and you had to be blindfolded and pin the watermelon slice picture as close to his mouth as possible, like Pin-The-Tail-On-The-Donkey.

She had all sorts of postcards, figurines, etc.

Don't throw them out. Keeping them does not mean you approve of them, but they are a evidence of some parts of our not-so-pretty history, and that history should not be covered up.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:24 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,332,503 times
Reputation: 9931
what you see as racist today, wasnt racist back then, yes it was wrong but it was an accepted way of life. so yes you think it racism but you cannot hide history. by sweeping under the rug doeant make it go away. and how is eating watermelon racist. its good, no matter who eating it

today society has gone so overboard with the political correctness that its hiding history. you think they could remake, gone with the wind or blazing saddles today, there would be riots.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:08 PM
 
1,040 posts, read 1,282,801 times
Reputation: 2865
I haven't found anything slavery-related in my family, but I have found other unflattering things. I've asked myself what I can learn from it.

I did realize some certain positive personality traits that I have in common with those folks, and that helped make me who I am. Other than that, I fully know I am not responsible for what other people did.
Quote:
how is eating watermelon racist
As you pointed out, some things that meant one thing back then do not mean the same thing now. The meaning of the watermelon back then is documented on the Internet and in books.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,166,913 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinLuv View Post
I tend to be factual about it, saying "yeaaah, they did" to any sneering remarks about my slave owning ancestors and then look at the speaker silently with raised brows. I mean - WTF am I supposed to do about it?

I do find it interesting that when land began to open on the other side of the Ohio, causing many of my Virginian and Maryland ancestors to pack up and head west, they seemed to have just dropped their slave holding views and adapted to a different lifestyle. If they were adamant about holding on to a regime that gave them the right to own human flesh, would they have left? I think it was something they were allowed to do in one place. An economic incentive to relocate would mean they couldn't be slave holders in that state or territory, so they weren't. One of my lines might have had qualms about the system, or maybe there was something more personal. The people they held as slaves in South Carolina moved with them to Illinois and became free. I have located a number of black people who carry the same surname as my ancestor in that part of the country. Unfortunately, communication has been difficult or they don't know their family history. I'd really like to find out what was behind all that.

Another thing is that when the Civil War broke out, my ancestors who were born in slave holding states, or whose parents were and once owned slaves, and now lived in Ohio or Illinois or Indiana - they fought on the Union side. It seems they hewed to the dynamics of their current home, not their ancestral ties. That's why I view my slave holding ancestors as being expedient, not evil. Viewed through a modern moral lens, that expediency could be viewed as repulsive, but in that time, in those places, it wasn't. And I can't change that, therefore, I'm not going to feel guilty about it.
This is how a lot of history has to be viewed. That's why reading the things written AT the time is invaluable, and lets you in on their view of the world. It's not just slavery, but a lot of practices which we don't do now, like child labor. And sometimes, the general way life was hard for everyone and if some suffered a bit more, it wasn't an issue since everyone did.

Have some terrible disastor come and tear down our world, the survivors would live how they had to and if it had been against the rules before, it wouldn't matter. At that time and in those places is a phrase which should be used more often.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:57 PM
 
203 posts, read 171,685 times
Reputation: 387
It wouldn't bother me one bit. I'm sure in a 150 years your Muslim descendants will be equally upset about your western liberal values. Times change.
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:27 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,743,919 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb73 View Post
You can't honestly expect people from the past to have been modern-day Politically Correct.

What was the mindset of the day? Did they think/act the same way as everyone else in that time/place? Why would you expect them to think/act differently than everyone around them just because it's expected today?

Figurines that you now consider to be racist were just knickknacks from then--obviously popular or somebody wouldn't have been making them and selling them.

Genealogy should be about celebrating our history, not re-writing it.

Just my two cents.
I agree with the above and I am a black genealogist dedicated to exploring black history.

On the OP material, I would keep them if I were you. They are probably worth quite a bit of money. I honestly wish that they wouldn't have informed you of this on the site as I would have immediately sent you a DM to you and asked for pics to see if there are any rare finds and offered to buy them from you! That is something I guess I could have "guilt" over but I don't. I take advantage of other people's "guilt" over these things and usually buy them for much less than I would if I got them from a dealer or estate sale.

Many middle income and above black Americans collect this sort of material. And just to straighten out any sort of confusion about us collecting it (I collect it myself) we do so because they are teaching tools and we don't want this history to be lost. Many collectors dedicate this material to museums.

Original items with Aunt Jemima especially are VERY collectible here in Ohio due to the woman who she was modeled after being from Cincinnati.

On the slavery aspect, I would suggest that you go through the material you found. If you found any sort of slavery era records those would be a gold mine to black genealogist as many times there were no records about our enslaved ancestors except those kept by the families who owned them. I know 3 individuals who ancestors owned my ancestors and they have shared a good amount of info with me.

So don't be ashamed or have guilt about this sort of thing. What we now consider as racist memorabilia are highly sought after items to collect and any sort of antebellum slavery records would be welcome material to be donated to a local historical society or provided for black genealogist to use.

ETA: Examples of material you may have are

*pictures of black servants/slaves that may be labeled with names
*letters written that mention any black servant/slave
*"property" records that list slaves (many owners listed them by family grouping, which is extremely helpful in slavery research)
*tax records in relation to slaves
*family history of your husband's family, many times they mention slaves/servants (the persons I have met online who owned my family have family histories written by their ancestors which have been of great use to me)

Just so you know, most black historians and genealogist do not have any sort of anger over the past. What happened, happened and we are always grateful to have new material to add to our researching databases. Most serious black genealogist actually do a lot of research into the families of their ancestor's owners. The three I know, I found due to my own research and looking up one of their ancestors and happened across their own websites or information and I reached out to them for any info they can find.
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