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Old 03-04-2016, 06:56 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,076 posts, read 16,263,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Exactly - it's not like prohibitions against interracial marriage had any effect on race mixing (having sex). Just watch Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates on PBS - almost every black American has one or more white ancestors.
Yes, but the question was about Native American blood and whether most colonial people have it. In the New England colonies the settlers were so religious and law abiding that very very few would have dared to go against the norm. After the Native American tribes became decimated with the men being killed off in wars against whites, some black men married Native American woman. So you could find black people who have Native American blood, but very few white people who married Native Americans--even though many of us have had that legend handed down.

I did have one horrible man who was raping a young white girl back in the mid 1700s but he was found out and punished. But most people back then were afraid of being punished by God--or by the law.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:05 PM
 
Location: The Woods
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It's hard to prove native ancestry for a few reasons. The natives of New England, for example, more or less assimilated into the White society over the course of several centuries. That included intermarriage. That did not always equate to acceptance though. It was dangerous to come out and say you were native at times in our history. In the 19th century it could mean deportation to the Indian Territory out West. Things were less directly violent for those natives in states like Maine or Vermont or for the whalers on Nantucket than the southern states but they were not good times to attract much attention to yourself if you were native. There was no doubt a lot of marriages or at least affairs between native and Whites in the East. Even on the reservations in states like Maine the natives today have many white features (blue eyes, blonde or red hair, lighter complexions, etc.). The famous Chief Orono in Maine was like this, perhaps of some French ancestry rather than English however. Sometimes when there's a rumor of a native ancestor and you find some ancestor who was not well accepted by neighbors it makes me wonder but you can't really prove it with most of the surviving records. I have at least one of those I wonder about but nothing can be proven.


Northern New England did not have the same history of extreme religion and rigid society that southern New England did (and actually Rhode Island is its own unique case with that subject). Vermont was an almost lawless place 200 years ago where organized religion wasn't too popular. Maine was a wilderness by and large. New Hampshire above the notch was not as tied to the society f southern New England either.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Canada
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I hate to bring this up..but many Native American's came here so long ago..and carry their Genealogy from ancient times...So it's not a wonder that local Native American blood lines do NOT match to local influences.

Whenever looking at genealogy..it always goes back to origin..not origin based on a few hundred years. Yet..It has been proven that offspring from Plantation Owners who had Slaves give birth HAS been proven..Why..because ancestral genealogy can be linked...Not all new folks who came to the American shores intermingled since only the elite had access and availability to those brought over as "Slaves"..

I'm not surprised at all..infact I bet for those who did research geneology background would fine links to European of Old! Looking back at geography of the OLD times..North America was once attached to Europe by land/Ice and many migrated initially in the Northern hemisphere by Indigenous folks ( Indian/Eskimo)....

Lets face it..World history is millenniums old..Inhabitants of the America's now is not what is was prior to 1492 ( Columbus)...In fact back then..the world was deemed Flat..and thus C. Columbus was rather brave to venture past the edge of the world, eh?
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque NM
2,887 posts, read 4,349,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Exactly - it's not like prohibitions against interracial marriage had any effect on race mixing (having sex). Just watch Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates on PBS - almost every black American has one or more white ancestors.
You cannot have only one ancestor of a certain race. You have to have all of that ancestor's ancestors as well.

In genealogy we spend a lot of time trying to find marriage records and prove relationships that way but I always think that more accurately, genealogy is a history of sex. If there wasn't a lot of interracial sex happening in the early colonies (by force or by choice), they wouldn't have needed to make laws against miscegenation. And those laws applied to Native Americans mixing with Europeans as well.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:59 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
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Northern New England did not have the same history of extreme religion and rigid society that southern New England did (and actually Rhode Island is its own unique case with that subject). Vermont was an almost lawless place 200 years ago where organized religion wasn't too popular. Maine was a wilderness by and large. New Hampshire above the notch was not as tied to the society f southern New England either.

This is interesting to me, personally. My line that is most baffling ended up on the border of VT and Quebec. Previously they had a history of being Loyalists and one gave up his land in VT or NH to flee to Quebec during the Rev. War. This is the line that we used to suspect could have a Native American too. My grandparents and gt grandparents were born in (depending upon the source) either VT or Quebec. Now I'm wondering again if my speculative tiny % DNA that says "Asian" could be related to their life in extreme northern VT and Quebec. Genealogy--addicting. Never ending!

This is an interesting article about the New England Native Americans, the Nipmucs who lived in parts of MA, CT, and RI. Scroll way down and there is even a 19th C. census of Native American surnames.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipmuc
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Old 03-05-2016, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111 View Post
That is very interesting. 30% is very high to have no knowledge. It is a percent you would expect if there was an almost full blooded parent or a full blooded grandparent and another partial grand parent. Is there a chance he is adopted or has a different parent than what he is told?
Not at all. Actually he does not have any native American features. Which is why we were suprised ( I was expecting maybe 10%, the family being 300 or 400 years in an area you expect some mingling). And begs the question of how accurate the test is.
Quote:
Getting his other relatives tested could be very interesting.
This would be interesting, I'm going to ask him about that.
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Old 03-05-2016, 08:48 AM
 
Location: 5,400 feet
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One of my wife's lines arrived in Virginia for the first Thanksgiving in 1619, and others over the period of 1650-1700. We have found no evidence of Native American ancestry, either documentary or DNA. One of her x-great aunts on that line moved to Arkansas and these is evidence she may have lived with Cherokee for awhile. That's the closest in that line. We've trace her other side to pretty much every immigrant, and they're all blonde and blue eyed.
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Old 03-05-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Just for the sake of discussion, I wonder about the opposite...how many Native Americans have traces of early colonist DNA. There was a huge die-off among the native population in the early years of European contact because of weak immunity defenses against common European diseases. It is probably unknowable at this point 500 years down the road but could shared DNA have reduced this immunity weakness early in the contact period?
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:21 AM
 
2,368 posts, read 3,140,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
Just for the sake of discussion, I wonder about the opposite...how many Native Americans have traces of early colonist DNA. There was a huge die-off among the native population in the early years of European contact because of weak immunity defenses against common European diseases. It is probably unknowable at this point 500 years down the road but could shared DNA have reduced this immunity weakness early in the contact period?
While our early white blood was more likely french traders/trappers the family legend is that a drop of white blood in the line was a good thing because of the immunity against diseases. The Europeans brought alot of diseases that came from their living in close contact with animals in their dwellings (farm animals in peasant huts in Europe) and in unsanitary cities. The NA population never had animals living in their dwellings and had a much more clean living situation with respect to sewage than Europeans.

Even just one or two generations back my relatives know of families that were thought to be more pure blooded succumbing very rapidly when going to college and being exposed to more disease or having one family member get something that takes out all the rest or leaves just one family member surviving.

For these reasons I'm not sure you would find a 100% NA DNA test although there are still plenty with a 100% paper trail, tribal status or BIA card.

Early settlers/invaders used germ warfare to threaten the Indians with the British having documented history of it and there being documented stories of the traders/trappers having used stoppered bottles with threats of small pox to steal and cheat the NAs.

The NAs knew very early on how devastating the invader diseases were and based on at least our own family legend may have known that a drop of white blood helped provide some protection. To me it would be very interesting if the elders of the time had figured that out.

Our family likely survived because on one census roll we had an ancestor show up at 7/8th NA. On a later census he showed up as full blooded again. Until DNA testing we didn't really know if the side note of 7/8th on the one was true because the paper trail shows 100% until you hit that one census record which contradicts the 100% note on the other census record.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
6,073 posts, read 10,577,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxmas View Post
I hear it wasn't uncommon for marriages to happen between someone who was white and the other being Native American. Obviously not every white person married a Native American, but it's always possible they married someone who was a 1/4 Native American for example. How likely are you to have even a tiny bit of Native American blood if you are descended from colonists?
As children we were always told that on my dad's side of the family, we had native American Blood in us. But.... I had the (23andMe) test done and found that there was Zero, Nada, Zip, None in our line on both sides of my parents lines. We are Irish, Scot-English, Scandinavian and French and not one drop of Native Blood. Which leave me to believe that the stories are just that, "stories". So this lead me to do some research and family genealogy on both sides and I came across some really interesting fax about my dads side of the family.
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