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Old 07-06-2018, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Sally Hemmings is old news for me to, but I did learn something new yesterday. She was the half sister of Martha Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's wife. So Jefferson had one sister as wife and one sister as slave/maid/concubine. He was a freak.

I wonder how did Martha feel about her sister being her husband's almost second wife (interracial marriages were not legal then)? Probably not happy, but what could she do?
He is generally regarded to have been in love with Sally, and their relationship did not begin until well after Martha had died. It's true he didn't free her until after his death, but he was probably worried what it would do to his career. Selfish, yes - but I don't see why that makes him a "freak".
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:49 AM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
He is generally regarded to have been in love with Sally, and their relationship did not begin until well after Martha had died. It's true he didn't free her until after his death, but he was probably worried what it would do to his career. Selfish, yes - but I don't see why that makes him a "freak".
One sister and then the next sister. Maybe not at the same time, but still.........
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:42 AM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
He is generally regarded to have been in love with Sally, and their relationship did not begin until well after Martha had died. It's true he didn't free her until after his death, but he was probably worried what it would do to his career. Selfish, yes - but I don't see why that makes him a "freak".
There's no way to know for sure when he had sex with her for the first time, and I seriously doubt he waited until his wife died. His wife's consistent completely didn't matter, as it was routine for slaveowners to have concubines among their slaves.

And yes, it is freaky when your concubine/other woman is your wife's SISTER (half sister) that you OWN.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
There's no way to know for sure when he had sex with her for the first time, and I seriously doubt he waited until his wife died.
What evidence do you have of that? Because as far as I know, all evidence suggests there was nothing between them until years after Martha's death. It sounds to me like you've just decided, based on your bias alone, that their relationship began before Martha died.

Quote:
And yes, it is freaky when your concubine/other woman is your wife's SISTER (half sister) that you OWN.
It's bizarre for us today to think about a relationship between slave and master, but I don't see what difference her being his deceased wife's half sister makes. It's not unusual for two people to come together in their grief over a mutual loved one. Maybe she looked like Martha or reminded him of her and he was drawn to that. You seem intent on demonizing someone when you have no proof or even any evidence that it wasn't a loving, consensual relationship. While I do find the idea of a slave/master relationship unsettling by nature, that doesn't mean it's impossible that there could have been love between them.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,476 posts, read 26,078,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
One sister and then the next sister. Maybe not at the same time, but still.........
It was not uncommon in that era for in laws to marry after loss of spouses. Such relationships were not frowned upon. Keep in mind that it's not incest. The couple is not related by blood.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:53 PM
 
11,894 posts, read 9,612,778 times
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I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know what direction it's gone in, but I think it's safe to say that considering how many Americans believe they have Native American ancestry from family stories told through generations, it doesn't surprise me to hear people are disappointed when they do these tests and discover they're plain old European lol.

I didn't do the test expecting to find anything "unique," I took it out of curiosity. I know what my family says we are, but it's too simplistic. I know that in reality there is a history of mixing even within Europe. I know that half my family comes from Sicily and other parts of Southern Italy, and I know that that area has been conquered by the Greeks with appearances from North Africans and ties to the Middle East. Yes, the blending of cultures and people in many cases happened a while ago, but I did not expect my DNA to actually be 50% X, 25% Y, and 25% Z like my family has always said it is for me. And it wasn't, and it was cool to see what interesting results I had - like a rather small percentage of Middle Eastern thrown in there. Didn't really see it coming but it makes sense and I think it's cool to see the results for that reason. Learn things you didn't know, things your family didn't even know. It doesn't change you or who you are to find out you are something you didn't know you'd be, or aren't something you thought you were, I think it's just cool to see where we come from.
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,476 posts, read 26,078,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know what direction it's gone in, but I think it's safe to say that considering how many Americans believe they have Native American ancestry from family stories told through generations, it doesn't surprise me to hear people are disappointed when they do these tests and discover they're plain old European lol.

The absence of Native American DNA is not proof that someone has no NA ancestors. Go back enough generations and you have many ancestors from whom you have inherited no DNA at all.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:03 PM
 
11,894 posts, read 9,612,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The absence of Native American DNA is not proof that someone has no NA ancestors. Go back enough generations and you have many ancestors from whom you have inherited no DNA at all.
I've said this before but I still think it's unlikely that most people who claim NA ancestry actually have ever had it at any point in their history. Given how many NAs were killed/died off and then ostracized, it just doesn't make sense.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,476 posts, read 26,078,274 times
Reputation: 26426
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I've said this before but I still think it's unlikely that most people who claim NA ancestry actually have ever had it at any point in their history. Given how many NAs were killed/died off and then ostracized, it just doesn't make sense.

All I said was that absence of DNA proof is not proof of absence of NA heritage.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,885 posts, read 1,014,551 times
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Yes. I was disappointed. I am something like 9% less Italian than I thought I was and all of the rest of my makeup is European - nothing surprising, except the "Iberian" - had not ever heard that before and am not really clear what it means.
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