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Old 07-24-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: NJ
9,173 posts, read 20,201,974 times
Reputation: 6225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marid4061 View Post
For years my husband has wanted to find out about his father's side of the family. His father was adopted. We did not know this until we were adults and found out by accident. His father did confirm it. His father has been deceased for years. My husband's parents had a nasty divorce and his mother doesn't know anything about his dad's background. This is all we know about his dad now:

We know the city and state he was raised in.
He was adopted from an orphanage.
We do not know if the orphanage was in the same city he grew up in, but are sure it was the same state.
We have his birthdate, but not sure if he was born in the same city as where he was adopted.
His father has no living sisters or brothers or anyone that has any information.
His name was changed when adopted because he is a Jr. This is strange because there were already 3 other kids in the family that adopted him. And they were poor farmers, so not sure why they adopted him.

With such limited information, where do we start?? Should we subscribe to ancestry.com? Completely new at this and would really love to get some information! Thanks for any suggestions.
It sounds like people are wondering if perhaps your FIL's father had an affair which could answer why he was named a Jr. It's possible but it also may mean nothing.

I've found records for one farming family in Missouri that adopted 2 sets of siblings that were born in the early 20's. I have not had time to look into it more but most of the kids went back to their parents last names when they turned adults. Doing a quick google search, adoptions as they are today is not what it was like back then. Here is one site

It would be very helpful to know what state and the year of his birth/ adoption so that I can better point you towards information you can get. As was mentioned, some states do give out records, some do not. Laws are changing all the time so its hard to say what you're able to get without knowing specifics. See my blog Adoption - Reunion Tips (non DNA) where I give links to pages that you can look up the state laws. Here is some of the blog


Check the links below to see if the state of your adoption has given access to records
AAC - American Adoption Congress - state-by-state legislative efforts to obtain access for adult adoptees to their original birth certificates. Find your state here.
Adoption Search and Reunion - STATES' LAWS & LINKS original birth certificate info as well as state reunion registry info plus other state links

Map of U.S. Adoption Statuses at a Glance - provides an overview of birth certificate access for adopted adults in all states

The most important site to register on is Adoption Reunion Registry. Make sure you do not lose your log in info & be sure to keep your info current.

Do a search on Adoption reunion registry. Try your search different ways; 1st would be gender; DOB; birth place. Do not select *searching for
If there are no matches; start by removal of gender; then removal of birth place

Adoption Reunion also has a message board. The main board is Search & Reunion. There are various ways to search there. By state; by Agency or Maternity Home; by year; also International Search & Reunion

ADOPTION REUNION WEB SITES-

ISSR - International Soundex Reunion Registry - is the oldest registry; started way back in the days before there was an Internet, so it has a lot of entries. Download the form; send via snail mail to register. ISRR allows any family member to register including aunts, uncles, cousins.. Other registries are pretty limiting to parents and siblings.

Check to see if your state has it's own adoption registry such as NJ
Colorado Voluntary Adoption Registry - Additional adoption contacts
Find my family Colorado Registry
Quickbase - Colorado Adoption Registry


G'S Adoption Registry
Troys List
FARR - Florida Adoption Reunion Registry - Fees: one time fee of $35 unless proof of financial hardship (i.e. eligibility for unemployment, SSI, public assistance, etc.) In these cases fees may be waived. $10 fee to update information
adopting back web site
You can also try a Family Search. See sample search results for Event: Birth, Place: Miami Florida, Event Range: 1950-1950, Country:United States
_________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Due to the fact that 23andMe no longer offer any family trees (which are necessary for figuring out how you relate to someone/finding unknown bio relatives), I think you will get more out of testing with Ancestry.com, then uploading to FamilyTreeDNA for $19, and MyHeritage, Gedmatch, and DNA.land for free. WeGene specializes in Asian heritage - I haven't seen any mention of that so I'm guessing your husband doesn't have any Asian background, so I'm not sure if there would be a huge benefit to uploading there. If it's a free upload, it won't hurt, but just a warning that it could be a waste of time.
I agree and would suggest testing at Ancestry where they can make a tree, then upload DNA raw data as well as the family tree GEDcom file to the various sites for free. Between doing DNA and searching to see what adoption info they can get, they may get lucky finding his family.

Marid, see my blog Family tree and DNA general instructions for the whole thing. I'm going to paste in a part of it.

Family Tree Sites and GEDcom Files - Back up your family tree to upload to other sites

Ancestry - go to your family tree, next click the name of your tree in the top left corner, you'll see tree settings, click on it. On the right side you'll see a white box with Your home person in this tree; Your home person in this tree; Hint preferences; Manage your tree - Export your family tree data, as a GEDCOM file, to your computer, the GEDcom download will take a few seconds to generate.

My Heritage - Go to your profile, At the top it says home, family tree, discoveries, DNA, photos, research; mouse over family tree you'll see import GEDcom and manage trees, click manage trees, on the far right under actions you'll see export to GEDcom. My Heritage is limited with free family tree accounts. I have 203 people in my tree, it's telling me I have reached the maximum and will have to pay to add more people.

Family Tree DNA FTDNA - Log into FTDNA, you'll be on the main page that shows Welcome to myFTDNA with your account info in the left box, you can't miss where it says family tree; which you click then upload GEDcom is right there.

Family Search Scroll down on the main page, you'll see Do You Have a GEDCOM File? Preserve and Share Your Family Tree. You'll then see Submit Your Tree. To submit your tree, you must sign in or register with FamilySearch.org. What does it mean to submit your family tree? When you submit your family tree, you can upload a GEDCOM file so that others can search it on FamilySearch.org. This process replaces the Share My Genealogy feature that was used to submit information to the Pedigree Resource File (PRF). It then goes more into detail. Family Search trees are public trees, which I only recently found out. They do protect living people so only you will be able to see the info you add but I'm unsure exactly what others see so it's on my list of things to check out.

wikitree is a public tree. It's a community of genealogists trying to connect the world on one tree. I have not spent much time on wikitree so I can't really say anything about it except it's a decent place to get info for your own tree, but from experience you have to make sure you check what they have because it could be incorrect. There is a relative of my son's family there who has a lot of wrong information. I left comments on some of the profiles that have wrong info, she has not fixed it yet. I've emailed her asking to be on the safe list for the relatives because some are set to private, she hasn't answered. I haven't had time to go back to wikitree to each relatives profile to ask to be put on the safe list for each of the relatives we share. From what I see you have to sign up to volunteer before they'll let you do anything such as edit incorrect info.

Now to the DNA
Quote:
How to access and download your autosomal DNA results from AncestryDNA once you're ready to upload to other sites.

1. Navigate to the Ancestry.com website homepage.
2. In the upper-right corner, click Sign In to display the sign in window.
3. In the Username or email field, enter your username or email.
4. In the Password field, enter your password.
5. Click Sign In. Your Ancestry home page is displayed.
6. On the menu bar, click DNA > Your DNA Results Summary. The AncestryDNA home page is displayed.
7. On the right side of the page, click Settings. Your Test Settings page is displayed.
8. Scroll down the page.
9. On the right side of the page, in the Download your raw DNA data section, click Get Started. The Download your raw DNA data window is displayed.
10. Enter your password in the empty field.
11. Click Confirm. A window requesting that you check your email is displayed.
12. Check your email for an email from AncestryDNA with the subject line Your request to download AncestryDNA raw data.
13. In the email, click Confirm Data Download. You will be redirected to the Ancestry.com website.
14. Enter your username or email and password in the appropriate fields, and click Sign In. The Download DNA Raw Data page is displayed.
15. Click Download DNA Raw Data to download your raw data file. Note where you save the file on your computer
.

23andme Accessing your Raw Data

FTDNA Accessing your Raw Data to upload to GEDmatch


23 and me offers 2 tests, one for family finder ($99) and another for health ($200). If you do the family finder without health and you're interested in doing the health later on it will cost you an extra $25 so be aware of that. They do not support uploads from other sites.

Ancestry DNA - costs $99 plus $10 shipping. They do not allow uploads from other companies. Tests normally go on sale mothers and father's day, black Friday $69 and the Christmas holiday $79. I have a coupon code in my 1st post here I believe where it's $89 but you have to add the $10 shipping to it. It's very easy to buy more tests to add it to the people in your tree.

Family Tree DNA costs $79 or you can transfer your Ancestry DNA or 23 and Me autosomal DNA data to discover new matches for free. For $19 more they will give you myOrigins, ancientOrigins and Chromosome Browser. I haven't done it yet. I plan to do it at some point so I can get the experience. I have directions on how to upload multiple raw data files at FTDNA in case anyone gets stuck. Once you have the 1st one uploaded and have electronically signed it, logout of FamilyTreeDNA, then select the drop down box "DNA Tests" and select the "Autosomal Transfer". Fill out First Name and Last name of the person who's test you will be uploading and select if they are male or female and then enter your email address if you are the person who will administer this account. It will then assign you a new kit number and email you a new password for the kit. Then it will proceed to the upload DNA page. Make sure you look for the password email. You're going to get one for each sample you upload. You have to upload your family tree GEDcom file for each sample which is a pain in the butt but over all it's been a good experience. Directions page in case anyone needs it.

My Heritage DNA is normally $99 but they're selling it for $79. They're a new company so you may not get many matches. They allow free uploads from Ancestry, 23 and me and FTDNA. June 2017 - New, they now give free ethnicity estimates. I won a kit from My Heritage for a founders project. They were interested in me because my family has lived in Hungary for a long time. I got my ethnicity report from it, I'm 96.3% East European and 3.7% Italian. It took 6 months, they wouldn't release it until they were done analyzing data from everyone that was in the project. They did give me DNA matches, I only have 5 where on FTDNA and Ancestry I have a lot more. To upload your DNA from another company, go to your profile, you will see the DNA tab where you can upload your raw data. They're saying they will eventually be charging to upload raw data. They're also going to add a surname feature where they will give surnames at some point. To upload DNA to another person in your tree, find them on the tree then click their name, it will open a box on the left that has the link to upload.

GEDmatch where you can upload both your DNA and a GEDcom file; look for matches and do all sorts of things with finding out your ethnicity that's more involved then any of the other companies. They go back to hunter-gatherer. GEDmatch upload in case you can't find it. It only takes a few minutes to upload the DNA, then you can play around with the tools. Full results will come in a day or 2. I have not spent much time here so can't go into more detail on the matches. There are tutorials on DNA matching that I have not read yet. Click here to register
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Old 07-24-2017, 12:25 PM
Status: "Trapped but not by Minnesota" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Somwhere
3,123 posts, read 1,217,954 times
Reputation: 8030
I would guess the "poor farmer" adopted a boy to help with farm work. Even if he already had 1 or 2 boys, he might have needed another. When girls grew up, they moved away to live with their husband's family, so the farmer may have been ensuring his old age. If the biological kids were all girls, that could explain the Jr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichele View Post
I am not the OP but this is a useful question. OP stated that no siblings are available after reading the post again.

My next thought would be again, the male child of a male sibling if one ever existed. Then perhaps the female child of such a person?

My gut is telling me that this is likely an in-family adoption of some sort. I hope that OP comes back and gives us more info.

OP, I would test with 23andMe and then upload to Gedmatch, WeGene, FTDNA, and MyHeritage if free uploads are still available. I don't have a lot of experience with Ancestry outside of it contains my extensive family tree. A DNA cousin is in the process of doing Ancestry right now and I will take his recommendations on moving there with testing, based on his experience.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,805,062 times
Reputation: 10451
Quote:

In this case where a strong push for some sort of in-family adoption may be the case, it IS a call for getting haplogroups. I suspect that OP's husband's father may have been the son or some sort of relative to the adopted family. And I would start with removing that doubt FIRST.
The haplogroup won't determine that. Again, the haplogroup only really provides info on ancient ancestry. It's not hugely helpful for much else. Without knowing the haplogroups of the rest of the close family members of an in-family adoption, knowing one's haplgroup doesn't tell you anything about that. I am not arguing that there can't be an in-family adoption (even though you can't even keep straight which person was the adopted one), only that the haplogroup isn't going to tell you that unless you test other family members. And if you're going to test other family members, they will show up as autosomal matches regardless of the halpogroup.

Quote:
I am not here to argue. I am providing answers that are comprehensive.
I'm just providing the correct information. Maybe if you explained HOW you think haplogroups would be useful, instead of just claiming it will, that would be more comprehensive.

Last edited by in_newengland; 07-24-2017 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,988 posts, read 17,140,226 times
Reputation: 30125
No more fighting. Just reply if you can help. Otherwise your entire post will be deleted and you'll be of no help whatsoever.
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my posts as moderator will be in red. Moderator: Health&Wellness~Genealogy. The Rules--read here>>> TOS. If someone attacks you, do not reply. Hit REPORT.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Illinois
3,168 posts, read 4,154,040 times
Reputation: 5580
OP, as my post was "deleted" here. Let me explain.

Ancestry will NOT give you health reports nor haplogroups. If you can find a direct male descendant from your FIL's adopted family, and compare it to your husband's, I think that this is useful information. Again, this rubs me like an in-family adoption of some sort. Not many men will adopt a strange male child and give him his full name. That is unusual. HIGHLY.

And you also get useful health reports, the reason why some people do this kind of testing with 23andMe. It is extremely helpful to people who are adopted or have a missing parent/grandparent in their line.

A haplogroup match, along with any autosomal match, will tell the story better. A tree match is nice and all, but nothing beats the science behind it all. IJS. A tree match will just send you looking for even more concrete evidence which makes no sense to me. Just do the science- FIRST.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,805,062 times
Reputation: 10451
It's true AncestryDNA doesn't have haplogroups or health reports. But again, the haplogroup won't be necessary in this case. And you can upload to Promethease.org for a comprehensive $5 health report.

Any close relative (2nd cousin or closer) from the OP's FIL's adopted family would suffice for an autosomal comparison, to see if they share a reasonable about of DNA - that would pretty much answer the question of an in-family adoption. They do not need to be direct male descendant, nor would the haplogroup be necessary. Sharing a significant amount of autosomal DNA (or not) would be enough.

If it turns out there's no in-family adoption, the trees are 100% necessary to figuring out one's bio ancestry, which is difficult with 23andMe since they no longer offer any. Since the haplogroup is not necessary, you can get a comprehensive health report for $5 from Promethease.org, and Ancestry has trees, I believe AncestryDNA is the better option to test with. That's my advice to the OP, and my reasons for it, I hope it help!
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Illinois
3,168 posts, read 4,154,040 times
Reputation: 5580
OP, I would do the 23andMe test. Again, not many men will adopt a male child for the hell of it and give him the Jr title. Even more interesting is this adoption info was found unintentionally, as if it wasn't meant to be known.

I think that a hit on your husband's paternal haplgroup will produce useful info.

Good luck to you.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:10 PM
 
2,746 posts, read 3,916,254 times
Reputation: 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi View Post
I would guess the "poor farmer" adopted a boy to help with farm work. Even if he already had 1 or 2 boys, he might have needed another. When girls grew up, they moved away to live with their husband's family, so the farmer may have been ensuring his old age. If the biological kids were all girls, that could explain the Jr.
Interesting point. I had not thought of that.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:12 PM
 
2,746 posts, read 3,916,254 times
Reputation: 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichele View Post
OP, I would do the 23andMe test. Again, not many men will adopt a male child for the hell of it and give him the Jr title. Even more interesting is this adoption info was found unintentionally, as if it wasn't meant to be known.

I think that a hit on your husband's paternal haplgroup will produce useful info.

Good luck to you.


DNA can prove useful in OP's search no matter the results.


Hope OP comes back & shares more info with us all.
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Out there somewhere...
38,677 posts, read 45,030,920 times
Reputation: 106708
My wife's father (born 1913) was adopted and we went to the state's vital statistic bureau and got the information. Also if the person is Catholic they usually have a record somewhere of the adoption.
Some states require a certain length of time like in our case 100 years from birth date before they release the info.
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