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Old 07-31-2017, 10:38 PM
 
2,770 posts, read 4,088,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
That's the same issue I've run into; though it's much farther back (my great-great grandfather was adopted). The best I've been able to do is find other people with my/his surname living around the area he was born, and around the same time. I've got a few assumptions as to who his father might have been, but nothing to connect them.... yet. It was Revolutionary war period and location, and some men may have died in the militia. I've got a military muster roll with several men who disappear from records afterwards. I may just visit that area (in New Jersey) someday and get a closer look. Possibly some small library has an old dusty book with the key.


Any clue to what great-great grandfather's birth surname was?


What town in NJ did they live?
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: NJ
9,810 posts, read 20,699,868 times
Reputation: 7262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
That's the same issue I've run into; though it's much farther back (my great-great grandfather was adopted). The best I've been able to do is find other people with my/his surname living around the area he was born, and around the same time. I've got a few assumptions as to who his father might have been, but nothing to connect them.... yet. It was Revolutionary war period and location, and some men may have died in the militia. I've got a military muster roll with several men who disappear from records afterwards. I may just visit that area (in New Jersey) someday and get a closer look. Possibly some small library has an old dusty book with the key.
NJ opened some adoption records. Let me know if you need help I can point you in the right direction. I've lived in Jersey all my life.
Have you done DNA?
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Old Today, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Virginia
148 posts, read 92,297 times
Reputation: 405
Okay, I am revitalizing this post because I have some updates! For my husband's b'day I gave him a DNA kit. He also joined ancestry.com. About a month after he got his results back he got a message from someone who said their results showed they were first cousins. We had been researching on ancestry.com before this message came and I found a tombstone with a name on it and birth date the same as his father's. This tombstone also had a mother's name, and another infant son and the date they died on it. Research showed that the mother died giving birth to the baby. Back in those days it was common to put several names on a tombstone before they were deceased. The person that contacted my husband has the same last name as the names on this tombstone! We are getting closer now to finding out if this was his father's real name. Through numerous emails this first cousin's father and my husband's father would have been brothers. The cousin said her dad said that he had young siblings put into an orphanage and never knew what happened to them. We are very certain that this has to be his father. My question is this, we know the orphanage and years he would have been there. Is there any public records on file that we can get off the internet that would verify he was there and who adopted him? This would 100% give proof that we have the right information. This cousin sent pictures of who we think his father was as a child and they look just like my husband. This has been quite a journey and so amazing. We want to try and visit the orphanage too in the near future to see if we can get records. Thanks if you have any information to help us find records online at this time.
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Old Today, 10:24 AM
 
Location: NJ
9,810 posts, read 20,699,868 times
Reputation: 7262
Quote:
Originally Posted by marid4061 View Post
Okay, I am revitalizing this post because I have some updates! For my husband's b'day I gave him a DNA kit. He also joined ancestry.com. About a month after he got his results back he got a message from someone who said their results showed they were first cousins. We had been researching on ancestry.com before this message came and I found a tombstone with a name on it and birth date the same as his father's. This tombstone also had a mother's name, and another infant son and the date they died on it. Research showed that the mother died giving birth to the baby. Back in those days it was common to put several names on a tombstone before they were deceased. The person that contacted my husband has the same last name as the names on this tombstone! We are getting closer now to finding out if this was his father's real name. Through numerous emails this first cousin's father and my husband's father would have been brothers. The cousin said her dad said that he had young siblings put into an orphanage and never knew what happened to them. We are very certain that this has to be his father. My question is this, we know the orphanage and years he would have been there. Is there any public records on file that we can get off the internet that would verify he was there and who adopted him? This would 100% give proof that we have the right information. This cousin sent pictures of who we think his father was as a child and they look just like my husband. This has been quite a journey and so amazing. We want to try and visit the orphanage too in the near future to see if we can get records. Thanks if you have any information to help us find records online at this time.
CD member Historyfan is really good with orphanage records. It would have to have been from a 1940's at the latest census. Anything after 1940 isn't online yet. It's my understanding they could petition court records too. There could be some kind of paper trail. Here is a post by historyfan if you want to reach out to her

Since you know the family name, try google. Then go to google images. You may get lucky with a news paper article. I just did that with my great uncles families because their name is very uncommon.

You may even be able to get social security apps for the person if they weren't adopted.

There's a thread in people search called Searching for Birth Mother Mildred "Millie" May Galvin born 1928 in Waterbury CT in this post I just linked to, the person tells how to get social security info via freedom of info act. I'll paste his reply in below. Also consider searching the social security death index.

Hopefully something I said will be of help to you. The thread I'm linking to is really long but there is tons of great info there for people like you looking for someone. You doing DNA was the best thing you could do. Have you uploaded to all the free sites yet? My Heritage, FTDNA and GEDmatch Genesis? It may help some more even though you got a really decent match on ancestry.

Copied from searching for birth mother. To go directly to the quote in the thread click the white arrow in each blue quote box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jommie View Post
Some notes on the Social Security Death Index and Claims Index:


The claim index will list events on the number - February 1947 would be the event when the card was requested/benefit claimed for Jennie. The database will almost always list the birth name for married women - which is why Jane Esther Ney is listed with Jennie Galvin. I don't think it was 'changed' - just both were recorded at that time.


The Death Index does not list deaths before 1962 - this would be why Jennie is listed in claims, but not listed in the SSDI but William J. Galvin (1966) is listed in the SSDI. Per his obit, it would be likely that Jennie died before 1962.


The SSDI does also not list deaths after 2004 for privacy. I believe if Mildred had an SS #, which I believe she would have applied for at some point between age 18 and 1960 - it makes sense she would not be listed for one of three scenarios:
-- She is still living
-- She passed away after 2004
-- She passed away between 1960-1962 as the 'car accident' scenario suggested.


I'd highly suggest requesting the SS-5 (social security applications) for both Jennie and Mildred. They are available per Freedom of Information Act. I found this method extremely helpful in identifying my great-grandparents as the parents were listed, usually by the number holder themselves.


Since you have Jennie's number, you should have no issue obtaining this form. It may be in her handwriting, or if not, say who filled it in, and give a location in 1947.


Mildred wouldn't be old enough yet to definitely obtain a copy, as they have waiting periods for privacy, but if they have her listed as deceased in the database - they would likely still process. Even though you don't have her number, you can fill in all the relevant information for them to locate her record if it exists.


You can do this online, the forms are $24.00 "Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5)"
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps9/eFOIA-F...ernet/main.jsp


Hope this helps and opens some doors! If any questions on this or how to walk through the request, feel free to PM me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jommie View Post
Some notes on the Social Security Death Index and Claims Index:


The claim index will list events on the number - February 1947 would be the event when the card was requested/benefit claimed for Jennie. The database will almost always list the birth name for married women - which is why Jane Esther Ney is listed with Jennie Galvin. I don't think it was 'changed' - just both were recorded at that time.


The Death Index does not list deaths before 1962 - this would be why Jennie is listed in claims, but not listed in the SSDI but William J. Galvin (1966) is listed in the SSDI. Per his obit, it would be likely that Jennie died before 1962.


The SSDI does also not list deaths after 2004 for privacy. I believe if Mildred had an SS #, which I believe she would have applied for at some point between age 18 and 1960 - it makes sense she would not be listed for one of three scenarios:
-- She is still living
-- She passed away after 2004
-- She passed away between 1960-1962 as the 'car accident' scenario suggested.


I'd highly suggest requesting the SS-5 (social security applications) for both Jennie and Mildred. They are available per Freedom of Information Act. I found this method extremely helpful in identifying my great-grandparents as the parents were listed, usually by the number holder themselves.


Since you have Jennie's number, you should have no issue obtaining this form. It may be in her handwriting, or if not, say who filled it in, and give a location in 1947.


Mildred wouldn't be old enough yet to definitely obtain a copy, as they have waiting periods for privacy, but if they have her listed as deceased in the database - they would likely still process. Even though you don't have her number, you can fill in all the relevant information for them to locate her record if it exists.


You can do this online, the forms are $24.00 "Photocopy of Original Application for a Social Security Card (SS-5)"
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps9/eFOIA-F...ernet/main.jsp


Hope this helps and opens some doors! If any questions on this or how to walk through the request, feel free to PM me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Is anyone looking at newspaper sites? Please let me know. I haven't seen historyfan here so can send her a PM to see if she's able to find anything but I don't want her to do what someone else is already doing.

I doubt her death was unknown, it was just not digitalized yet. Social security was new back in January 1937. It went thru a lot of changes. Under the original 1935 law, what we now think of as Social Security only paid retirement benefits to the primary worker. A 1939 change in the law added survivors benefits and benefits for the retiree's spouse and children. In 1956 disability benefits were added.

If none of the relatives know about Mildred or Jennie, Mr Skin should try his local office to see what he can get in person with all of his docs.

Q9: What information is available from Social Security records to help in genealogical research?
A: You might want to start by checking out the Social Security Death Index which is available online from a variety of commercial services (usually the search is free). The Death Index contains a listing of persons who had a Social Security number, who are deceased, and whose death was reported to the Social Security Administration. (The information in the Death Index for people who died prior to 1962 is sketchy since SSA's death information was not automated before that date. Death information for persons who died before 1962 is generally only in the Death Index if the death was actually reported to SSA after 1962, even though the death occurred prior to that year.)

If you find a person in the Death Index you will learn the date of birth and Social Security Number for that person. (The Social Security Death Index is not published by SSA for public use, but is made available by commercial entities using information from SSA records. We do not offer support of these commercial products nor can we answer questions about the material in the Death Index.)

Other records potentially available from SSA include the Application for a Social Security Number (form SS-5). To obtain any information from SSA you will need to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.

FOIA request - Deceased Individual's Information

We will not disclose information about any person in our records unless: 1) the number holder has provided written consent or we have acceptable proof of his or her death; or 2) the number holder is at least 100 years old and we have acceptable proof of his or her death; or 3) the number holder is more than 120 years old.

In addition, we do not release the parents’ names unless: 1) we have the parents’ written consent or acceptable proof of death for the parents; or 2) the number holder is at least 100 years old and we have acceptable proof of his or her death; or 3) the number holder is more than 120 years old.

Acceptable proofs of death include:

a copy of a public record of death; or
a statement of death from a funeral director; or
a statement of death by the attending physician or the superintendent, physician, or intern of the institution where the person died; or
a copy of the coroner’s report of death or the verdict of the coroner’s jury; or
a copy of an official report of death or finding of death made by an agency or department of the U.S. which is authorized or required to make such a report or finding in the administration of any law in the U.S.; or
an obituary with sufficient identifying information.
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Old Today, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Virginia
148 posts, read 92,297 times
Reputation: 405
Thanks for all the information! I will check into those links. He was born in 1936. My husband is planning to call the orphanage today to see if they have records and if we can obtain them. Really wanting to know why the family who adopted him did (if there was any connection) and why he and two other siblings were put up for adoption.
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Old Today, 12:36 PM
 
Location: NJ
9,810 posts, read 20,699,868 times
Reputation: 7262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
CD member Historyfan is really good with orphanage records. It would have to have been from a 1940's at the latest census. Anything after 1940 isn't online yet. It's my understanding they could petition court records too. There could be some kind of paper trail. Here is a post by historyfan if you want to reach out to her

Since you know the family name, try google. Then go to google images. You may get lucky with a news paper article. I just did that with my great uncles families because their name is very uncommon.

You may even be able to get social security apps for the person if they weren't adopted.

There's a thread in people search called Searching for Birth Mother Mildred "Millie" May Galvin born 1928 in Waterbury CT in this post I just linked to, the person tells how to get social security info via freedom of info act. I'll paste his reply in below. Also consider searching the social security death index.

Hopefully something I said will be of help to you. The thread I'm linking to is really long but there is tons of great info there for people like you looking for someone. You doing DNA was the best thing you could do. Have you uploaded to all the free sites yet? My Heritage, FTDNA and GEDmatch Genesis? It may help some more even though you got a really decent match on ancestry.

Copied from searching for birth mother. To go directly to the quote in the thread click the white arrow in each blue quote box.
Forgot to give you the thread Family tree and DNA general instructions scroll to now to the DNA for the free sites

Quote:
Originally Posted by marid4061 View Post
Thanks for all the information! I will check into those links. He was born in 1936. My husband is planning to call the orphanage today to see if they have records and if we can obtain them. Really wanting to know why the family who adopted him did (if there was any connection) and why he and two other siblings were put up for adoption.
Hopefully there's a paper trail you can follow with the courts, from before adoption.

Last edited by Roselvr; Today at 12:49 PM..
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