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Old 12-09-2017, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains
577 posts, read 342,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
R1b1b2a1a2f is L21 but R1b12a1a2f2 is M222. They aren't the same. L21 is much further up the tree than M222. L21 is very high in Northern France as well as Ireland which is interesting when you see the Irish DNA Atlas (IDA) says the Irish have high levels of ancestry from Northwestern France and Norway.

Northern France appears to be the origin of the Celtic populations of Britain and Ireland. Both in the IDA and the People of the British Isles (PoBI) the Celtic regions exhibit high levels of this Northern French category.

Most people need further ydna testing to find out which subclade they are under L21. 23andMe tests for both L21 and M222 so if you test at 23andMe you would know if you are one or the other.

23andMe now use the shortened form of L21 and M222 which avoids the confusion of using the more longer nomenclature.
The weird thing is that my family came from Northern Italy, near the French border. And not from Ireland.
I guess my great great great grandfather is Irish?
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:28 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarknation View Post
The weird thing is that my family came from Northern Italy, near the French border. And not from Ireland.
I guess my great great great grandfather is Irish?
L21 isn't specifically Irish though. Having L21 doesn't mean you are Irish. If you were M222 then that would be odd for a Northern Italian but L21 can be found in many European countries but is mostly concentrated in the northwest of Europe.

If you had further dna testing I bet you wouldn't be one of the subclades prominent in Ireland.

Being close to the French border could also be a factor in your ydna. France has quite high levels of L21.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:02 AM
 
858 posts, read 747,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarknation View Post
The weird thing is that my family came from Northern Italy, near the French border. And not from Ireland.
I guess my great great great grandfather is Irish?
As Bernie said L21 isn't Irish, it just shows up in high frequencies in Ireland (It's also the most common haplogroup in Britain)

Here's one frequency map across Europe

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...-DNA.shtml#L21



L21 originated somewhere on the Continent and spread out in the North West. As the article Bernie references pointed out

Quote:
Therefore the large signal we observe within Ireland could reflect Ireland as a ‘sink’ of Celtic ancestry, considering its isolation compared to other British Celtic groups.
That isolation is certainly a major reason for the high frequency of L21 in Ireland.

Basically coming up L21 doesn't mean you're from anywhere, except you tie back to Europe somewhere. There are plenty of L21 lines that have never touched Ireland (or Britain).
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:03 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alandros View Post
As Bernie said L21 isn't Irish, it just shows up in high frequencies in Ireland (It's also the most common haplogroup in Britain)

Here's one frequency map across Europe

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...-DNA.shtml#L21



L21 originated somewhere on the Continent and spread out in the North West. As the article Bernie references pointed out



That isolation is certainly a major reason for the high frequency of L21 in Ireland.

Basically coming up L21 doesn't mean you're from anywhere, except you tie back to Europe somewhere. There are plenty of L21 lines that have never touched Ireland (or Britain).
Agree with all you've said. The reason why certain ydna lines are so frequent in the Irish is due to the Irish clan system that basically wiped out a lot of other ydna lines. High status males basically had many concubines and wives to the detriment of other ydna lines. Clans like the Ui Neill and Dalcassians had powerful males who spread their ydna and lower caste males didn't get a look in. This was the nature of Ireland in the medieval period.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:53 AM
 
2,215 posts, read 753,524 times
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So do you feel that 23andMe is better than Ancestry dot com for genetic testing? Doesn't Ancestry have a larger data base? I want to choose the best one. Thank you in advance.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Rathdrum, ID
4,112 posts, read 3,860,715 times
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I couldn't understand much of what is posted in this thread. I 'think' it is written in English, but might as well be Greek to me. I've had mine analyzed, but from there I don't know how to proceed.

Is there an "Understanding DNA Results for Dummies" out there on the web somewhere?
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:20 AM
 
2,215 posts, read 753,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
I couldn't understand much of what is posted in this thread. I 'think' it is written in English, but might as well be Greek to me. I've had mine analyzed, but from there I don't know how to proceed.

Is there an "Understanding DNA Results for Dummies" out there on the web somewhere?
Haha, that makes two of us volosong .
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:14 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
So do you feel that 23andMe is better than Ancestry dot com for genetic testing? Doesn't Ancestry have a larger data base? I want to choose the best one. Thank you in advance.
Sorry about that. I forget that not everyone is a dna junkie like some of us here. This is just a landmark DNA study and there has been a lot of discussion in the past on various threads about who the Irish are. Well this study is the answer.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:32 PM
 
2,215 posts, read 753,524 times
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Oh ok, but which dna test would you recommend being the best out of those two, or is there a better one yet? Thank you. Or just do both?
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:01 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 3,768,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
Oh ok, but which dna test would you recommend being the best out of those two, or is there a better one yet? Thank you. Or just do both?
Yes Ancestry has a larger database and they also have Genetic Communities (GC). They only do autosomal dna tests.

https://dna-explained.com/2017/03/28...c-communities/

23andMe will give your ydna and mtdna as well as autosomal tests. They also will give you health reports and genetic traits.

It depends what you want out of the test.
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