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Old 01-23-2010, 11:34 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,001,893 times
Reputation: 4290

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... I bet they got tired of the lazy guys who pull every single record from their tree to their own

I'm not talking about pictures or obits or news items; I'm actually mostly OK with that. I subscribed to a news archive service and several genealogy societies. I go through Google books and the Internet archive and collect county histories for the information contained there. Stuff that can be hard to track down and/or entail a purchase, I'm glad to share - though it would be nice to receive an acknowledgment. If I see a unique item that I end up pulling to my tree, I send a message to the person or leave a comment in the box, stating my appreciation for what they've put up. I am grateful for the expansion of knowledge of my family tree by their contributions. It has even lead to my getting to know some very distant relatives and trading more family information.

So, no, not all record pulling is bad, but to pull the census records; the military records; the SS death records -- I mean, c'mon! Lazy! Spend a few hours out there looking for that stuff yourself! Especially on Ancestry, much of that is fairly easy to find if you have names, dates and place of residence - and sometimes you don't even need to have that much. You don't learn anything by merely saying "hey! that's my g-g-g-g-grandmother, let me scoop up everything this person has collected so I can have my very own family tree in an instant!" IMO, you don't get a sense of the person or family by merely collecting names and records. I've taken census records and tried to untangle the why's of a lot I see there. Parents disappear and kids end up with grandparents or uncle-aunts - I wonder what happened with that? I found a dissimilar name from the others listed in a dwelling and spent a lot of time scratching my head before learning that this was a granddaughter to the Head of House, yet her mother was living off in another state with a different name even than her daughter's. I guess this was a second marriage where the child of the first wasn't wanted? I recently found my g-g-grandfather's story of living in Texas with his brother and sister-in-law. That was 1910. In 1920, he was still in that house, only his brother was dead and the SIL was now listed as my g-g-grandfather's wife. That caused a lot "I yi yi!" comments from living family.

Even if people aren't so interested in researching family foibles and old gossip, it's still not fair to the person who might have spent hours (days) collecting all that and creating a tree. At least go out and do a little of the work yourself.

Last edited by linicx; 03-31-2010 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
Reputation: 10446
Frankly, I'm tired of this selfish idea of sharing... that sharing should ONLY occur if you get something in return, like credit or verbal appreciation. I'm sorry but that's not what sharing means. Especially when every time I've TRIED to contact people to talk about our mutual tree branch, I've NEVER gotten a response. That said, I've only added records from other people's trees a few times. But still, I genuinely don't mind people taking records from my tree without a word even if I've worked hard to find them. Why? Because I don't live by this idea where if I've worked hard to get something, I should have some kind of claim on it. And if I can make things easier for other people, I don't see why I shouldn't - it's just a nice thing to do. I'll bet most people DO appreciate it even if they don't say it. And that is the true meaning of sharing. If you don't like the true meaning of sharing, you're right, you shouldn't share your tree, you should make it private.
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:02 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,074,643 times
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Silverwing,

I like what you said in paragraph #3 of your posting, that's become the joy of genealogy for me....watching lives unfold as I do the research.

I guess I do "copy" from other trees. But what I do is print out what they have found, or usually just jot down a couple of facts that are missing for me. Then I look the stuff up again, on my own....perhaps it's honesty, but I think mostly its the desire to have the fun of the detective work, and the gnawing doubt that perhaps the other folks have made mistake.
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:03 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,074,643 times
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Stupid question: How does one know that someone has copied something like census records and such common stuff off of your tree?
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:13 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,001,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
I guess I do "copy" from other trees. But what I do is print out what they have found, or usually just jot down a couple of facts that are missing for me. Then I look the stuff up again, on my own....perhaps it's honesty, but I think mostly its the desire to have the fun of the detective work, and the gnawing doubt that perhaps the other folks have made mistake.
Same here. If the sources aren't supplied for the information, I don't trust it 100%. And I have run across a lot of information on other trees that is wrong. I'll take the names and dates, then x-reference them to sites like Findagrave, or the newspaper archives, or just a plain old web search. Even better if I can get the birth/death/marriage records to back it up - which get posted to my site as proof. In fact, in the first few weeks of starting my tree, I came across something that just looked wrong, yet there were 8 trees with the exact same information. In a county history, one of my ancestors was noted as being from Ohio, yet all the trees had the family from Iowa. Even all the census files people had stuck to their trees appeared to list most of the family from Iowa. It wasn't until I sent off for the death certificates of several people that I found I was right: the guy was from Ohio. It was one of those instances where people had common names: there was a John X in Iowa who had sons named John X, Jr and Matthew - same as my true Ohio ancestor. That lead to these other people having to delete as many as 125 names off their trees, depending on how many generations they had listed. Talk about a paaain Yet, it started with people simply pulling records from someone's tree and adding it to their own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK
Frankly, I'm tired of this selfish idea of sharing... that sharing should ONLY occur if you get something in return, like credit or verbal appreciation. I'm sorry but that's not what sharing means. ... But still, I genuinely don't mind people taking records from my tree without a word even if I've worked hard to find them. Why? Because I don't live by this idea where if I've worked hard to get something, I should have some kind of claim on it.
I bet you were good at looking over the shoulders of other kids during test time - kids who probably studied hard - and copying their answers

And like I said: the unique information - info I've found by downloading a 66mg PDF county history and scanning it for keywords; or the many dollars spent on news archives and gen societies where I find Civil War records or immigration files? Help yourself. That does take work that some people simply don't have time for or resources. I do it because of depth of interest and sheer fun and am willing to devote a lot of resources. And an acknowledgment? That's simply being polite; an attribute in sad decline and also a symptom of feeling entitled. Take what you want, but don't even take the 30 seconds to <click> on the profile or jot down a few words in the comment box. Boor.

And ignoring the fact that allll people have to do is <click> on the Ancestry Hints, give the documents a scan to see that Great-uncle Joe, born in 1863 in East Jesus Parish is really the g-uncle you were looking for, and then doing a SAVE is lazy. Lazy and a good way to totally whack out the verity of your tree and pass that bad info on to other people who are doing the same kind of poaching. Case in point is the example I gave above about my Ohio John being thought of as a John from Iowa. Also, right now I'm trying to ferret out a certain Moses D.XXXX , my g-g-grandfather. Several people have him in their trees as having married a woman and living in Iowa. They have kids, and grand-kids listed for this man. I just don't think that's right. I looked at the actual census record and believe all the trees are wrong; that who they have is actually a Moses O. - a totally different person listed wrong due to bad transcribing. Yet all these people are just out there pulling that record off other trees.

And no, I don't intend to make my tree PRIVATE. I know there are some people who will look at the records I've collected, x-ref it with sources I've yet to discover and list, and perhaps break down some of the brick walls I've hit. If that happens it will be "Eureka!" moment for me; one that I will acknowledge to the researcher. But I guess that is the difference from someone who does research and others who simply collect names. The first kind is helpful in the effort to construct accurate trees, the second are a nuisance to be born, and rightful to vent about.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
8,216 posts, read 12,800,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
I bet you were good at looking over the shoulders of other kids during test time - kids who probably studied hard - and copying their answers
No, actually, I was a goodie goodie who never looked at other people's answers. Never even considered it. What an incredibly presumptuous thing to say and if you're just going to personally attack me, I'm not going to be a part of this conversation. I simply made comments about my views on what sharing means and if you don't believe in my idea of sharing, that's fine, just make your tree private. But to make assumptions about what kind of kid I was based on that is rude and uncalled for. I did NOT make assumptions about what kind of person you are in other aspects of life so why you felt the need to do it is just beyond me.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:02 PM
 
5,640 posts, read 16,924,254 times
Reputation: 3963
I have gotten records from sources on the web - but I only disclose them as correct AFTER I have researched them myself and proven that the source was indeed correct... i.e. via census, and naturalization records. I use them as a pointer in the right direction - if you will.
Once, I did find an error and let that person know about it. I always try and contact the person when I am interested in their online records. I usually get a response which is nice to link with other descendants across the u.s. I have met some very nice people.
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Little Rock AR USA
2,457 posts, read 6,087,640 times
Reputation: 1863
I was doing genealogy many many years before computers when the only way to collect info was by US mail or long distance phone calls. I now use the internet for leads through a "brick wall" and now I'm happy to help others with their research by direct assistance or by making my tree public. I remember the old days and if I can help someone take a shortcut I am happy to do that.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:12 AM
 
31,984 posts, read 17,262,972 times
Reputation: 34701
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
I bet you were good at looking over the shoulders of other kids during test time - kids who probably studied hard - and copying their answers
LOL

To the OP, maybe some people doing genealogy are not research or computer savvy or knowledgeable as you are, and maybe they ran across a family tree that some one else has put together. I never knew this to be a violation of personal property. Maybe we should call the Mormons and have them shut down their collection IMMEDIATELY! After all, research is copy and paste by its nature.

I helped someone who is in his 70s recently, (actually I was simply showing him one of the ancestry sites), when we came across his maternal grandmother. Someone had traced it back to 1690. So of course we read it and printed it and sent it to his older sibling who is now 80.

They both found discrepancies. Just think of the joy they had in reading all those names from the past. I can't see how that would REALLY bother you to the point of calling some one a cheater in school. And no, I did not look at other kid's tests.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:31 AM
 
11,686 posts, read 13,074,643 times
Reputation: 30973
Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
LOL

To the OP, maybe some people doing genealogy are not research or computer savvy or knowledgeable as you are, and maybe they ran across a family tree that some one else has put together. I never knew this to be a violation of personal property. Maybe we should call the Mormons and have them shut down their collection IMMEDIATELY! After all, research is copy and paste by its nature.
Weeeeeeell, it is from time to time more than cut and paste. Those knotty puzzles or dead ends often get solved by a lot of intuition and hard work. And then there are those trees that contain work based on private records.

In either case, I'd don't see a major problem in borrowing from public trees what are clearly connexions not made from public records PROVIDING credit is given where it is due. If I borrow something like that I put a prominent note in my tree to the effect that is is from someone else's tree who did the research, not me.
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