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I've been looking all over, and figure that it's nigh unto impossible to find a town or area that has all of the above three factors.
1) Cheap houses / cost of living: By "cheap", I don't mean "$150,000 houses and open land is $20,000 an acre". I mean more like "$50,000 will get you a decently nice house and open land is less than $1,000 an acre". Also, if it's a cheap house but in a really high tax state, the numbers start to cancel out.
2) Safe / nice area: VERY low crime (the lower the better), nice people, you could leave your house unlocked while you're gone all day and feel 99.9% certain that nobody would even consider going in without your prior approval. "Gangs? What are gangs?" "Nah, they got drug problems in the city but not here." Etc.
3) Healthy economy: It would still be reasonably expected that you could start a business and make a living in the area, even if you provided a "luxury service" that tends to be one of the first things to get chopped when the household income decreases... without having to drive all over the place to find clients.
It seems very easy to find places with cheap houses that are really safe, but the economy is usually trashed. (After all, if the economy was good, people would want to move in and then the population density increases, which almost always brings with it an increase in crime!) Places with cheap houses and a healthy economy are usually ghettos (such as the town I live in right now), and places that are safe/nice and have a healthy economy are usually outrageously expensive.
What do you think? Does such an area exist? If yes, where? (Here's some helpful info. I'm going to check the City-Data profile of any town you mention. I expect to find a median house price under $100,000, an unemployment rate under 10%, a median household income figure of $30,000 or more, and a crime index averaging under 100 if a crime index is listed at all. Maybe some of y'all will know where this place exists so I don't have to check every town individually. If the town you're going to mention doesn't fit those criteria, it isn't what I seek.)
Sad, isn't it. But amusingly enough, that's the type of area I seek... one that'd be practically indistinguishable from small town USA in 1950 but for the newer cars and such.
I've been looking all over, and figure that it's nigh unto impossible to find a town or area that has all of the above three factors.
1) Cheap houses / cost of living: By "cheap", I don't mean "$150,000 houses and open land is $20,000 an acre". I mean more like "$50,000 will get you a decently nice house and open land is less than $1,000 an acre". Also, if it's a cheap house but in a really high tax state, the numbers start to cancel out.
2) Safe / nice area: VERY low crime (the lower the better), nice people, you could leave your house unlocked while you're gone all day and feel 99.9% certain that nobody would even consider going in without your prior approval. "Gangs? What are gangs?" "Nah, they got drug problems in the city but not here." Etc.
3) Healthy economy: It would still be reasonably expected that you could start a business and make a living in the area, even if you provided a "luxury service" that tends to be one of the first things to get chopped when the household income decreases... without having to drive all over the place to find clients.
It seems very easy to find places with cheap houses that are really safe, but the economy is usually trashed. (After all, if the economy was good, people would want to move in and then the population density increases, which almost always brings with it an increase in crime!) Places with cheap houses and a healthy economy are usually ghettos (such as the town I live in right now), and places that are safe/nice and have a healthy economy are usually outrageously expensive.
What do you think? Does such an area exist? If yes, where? (Here's some helpful info. I'm going to check the City-Data profile of any town you mention. I expect to find a median house price under $100,000, an unemployment rate under 10%, a median household income figure of $30,000 or more, and a crime index averaging under 100 if a crime index is listed at all. Maybe some of y'all will know where this place exists so I don't have to check every town individually. If the town you're going to mention doesn't fit those criteria, it isn't what I seek.)
Then you should move to where I live, North East PA. I live in Wilkes-Barre and the city at this time could be described as "up and coming" - recovering rust belt city.
Many colleges and universities in the area, surrounded by mountains natural beauty, history and state parks. Harvey's Lake is PAs largest natural lake.
A nice older home in the city, in a stable area can be had for 50-100K. Taxes are low.
Hosing stock is mostly older in town with newer construction concentrated in the out lying suburbs.
Prices there are a bit higher - but not by much. Outside of Wilkes-Barre city homes run from 75 on up.
I am not talking about dumps.
We are about 2.5 hours to both NYC and Philly and a bit more to the Atlantic Ocean.
Some names of towns that you might want to check out are Kingston, Forty-Fort, Dallas, Clark's Summit, Mountain Top, Wyoming, and others.
I live right in the city of Wilkes-Barre and I'm happy.
If you want any information I'd be happy to help! I'm a transplant and we are very happy here.
Then you should move to where I live, North East PA. I live in Wilkes-Barre and the city at this time could be described as "up and coming" - recovering rust belt city.
Many colleges and universities in the area, surrounded by mountains natural beauty, history and state parks. Harvey's Lake is PAs largest natural lake.
A nice older home in the city, in a stable area can be had for 50-100K. Taxes are low.
Hosing stock is mostly older in town with newer construction concentrated in the out lying suburbs.
Prices there are a bit higher - but not by much. Outside of Wilkes-Barre city homes run from 75 on up.
I am not talking about dumps.
We are about 2.5 hours to both NYC and Philly and a bit more to the Atlantic Ocean.
Some names of towns that you might want to check out are Kingston, Forty-Fort, Dallas, Clark's Summit, Mountain Top, Wyoming, and others.
I live right in the city of Wilkes-Barre and I'm happy.
If you want any information I'd be happy to help! I'm a transplant and we are very happy here.
Sheena,
I have been considering eastern PA. I used to live in Shenandoah, which is about 70 miles or so southwest of Wilkes-Barre on 81. I liked coal country and have been considering moving back, even though the local economy wasn't that great... I still know some people there from when I lived there, and it's only about 150 miles from where my parents live.
Wilkes-Barre is a city, and though its stats are better than those of the city in which I live (except for "household income"), I still seek an area that doesn't have a (surely deserved) reputation for having lots of trashy people living there. Those trashy people infiltrate the entire area and make the whole city (even the whole region) unsafe. For example, where I live, there is a ghetto area which comprises maybe 20% of the land area of the city. Most of the neighborhoods within the city limits are generally nice... including the neighborhood where I live. However, the ghetto trash doesn't always commit crimes against other ghetto trash. If they want to break into a house to find valuable stuff they can take to the pawn shop for drug money, they'll go to the nicer houses where valuable stuff is likely to be. Theft is all over the place in this city, not just in the ghetto... but I'd lay steep odds that whereas 20% of the city is ghetto, 50% of the crime is perpetrated outside of the ghetto, and 80% of the people who perpetrate crime in this city live in the ghetto. So, when you live anywhere that has a ghetto, you're not exactly safe.
However, you're definitely on to something. I'm not a city boy but eastern PA does hold a lot of draw for me. Thanks for the insight!
I have been considering eastern PA. I used to live in Shenandoah, which is about 70 miles or so southwest of Wilkes-Barre on 81. I liked coal country and have been considering moving back, even though the local economy wasn't that great... I still know some people there from when I lived there, and it's only about 150 miles from where my parents live.
Wilkes-Barre is a city, and though its stats are better than those of the city in which I live (except for "household income"), I still seek an area that doesn't have a (surely deserved) reputation for having lots of trashy people living there. Those trashy people infiltrate the entire area and make the whole city (even the whole region) unsafe. For example, where I live, there is a ghetto area which comprises maybe 20% of the land area of the city. Most of the neighborhoods within the city limits are generally nice... including the neighborhood where I live. However, the ghetto trash doesn't always commit crimes against other ghetto trash. If they want to break into a house to find valuable stuff they can take to the pawn shop for drug money, they'll go to the nicer houses where valuable stuff is likely to be. Theft is all over the place in this city, not just in the ghetto... but I'd lay steep odds that whereas 20% of the city is ghetto, 50% of the crime is perpetrated outside of the ghetto, and 80% of the people who perpetrate crime in this city live in the ghetto. So, when you live anywhere that has a ghetto, you're not exactly safe.
However, you're definitely on to something. I'm not a city boy but eastern PA does hold a lot of draw for me. Thanks for the insight!
It's a small city. Not a large one but it's not a suburb so it isn't squeaky clean and homogeneous.
If you look at the outlying areas, you will see that there is an extremely low incidence of crime and STILL a low cost of living.
Wilkes-Barre, for a city of it's size has a low crime index.
In a place such as Shavertown, Dallas or Clark's Summit, there is almost NO CRIME.
You also might want to check out Wayne County - Hamlin, Honesdale and surrounds.
If you know someplace better and safer , let me know. The wages are about the same as NY NJ and Philly.
It's a small city. Not a large one but it's not a suburb so it isn't squeaky clean and homogeneous.
If you look at the outlying areas, you will see that there is an extremely low incidence of crime and STILL a low cost of living.
Wilkes-Barre, for a city of it's size has a low crime index.
In a place such as Shavertown, Dallas or Clark's Summit, there is almost NO CRIME.
You also might want to check out Wayne County - Hamlin, Honesdale and surrounds.
If you know someplace better and safer , let me know. The wages are about the same as NY NJ and Philly.
Okay, I'll accept that these locations are good right now.
However, from having lived in NJ and the coal-country region of PA, I know that there was a lot of talk about extending existing rail lines out to parts of eastern PA so that there would be more mass-transit access to New York City. If that were to happen, which is an ever-increasing possibility the more people move out to eastern PA because it's only an "easy 90-minute commute to New York City" (what the realtors don't say: "...at 2:30 AM on Wednesdays and Sundays"), these now-nice areas would get more and more built up with the influx of "city folk". After all, why is it that eastern counties like Pike County are getting so built up and becoming so expensive? Because, a $200,000 house in the country is like a dream to people who'd have to spend five times that much to get a similar house in the city.
So, what do you think are the chances that those areas you mentioned will remain insulated from urban sprawl? People are crazy... they'll commute 150 miles each way especially if they can do it by train. I should know. I did it once... by car. It would've been WAY nice to do it by train, where I could sleep en route. I've been to Hamlin and it was nice, but what's the future looking like? According to the census data I have, Wayne County increased in population by 10.7% from 2000 to 2010 and it is presently in the 7th decile for population density (for my calculations that means that only 30-40% of all counties in the USA are more densely populated... so it's solidly in the "more densely populated half"). It seems to be trending upward in population.
Okay, I'll accept that these locations are good right now.
However, from having lived in NJ and the coal-country region of PA, I know that there was a lot of talk about extending existing rail lines out to parts of eastern PA so that there would be more mass-transit access to New York City. If that were to happen, which is an ever-increasing possibility the more people move out to eastern PA because it's only an "easy 90-minute commute to New York City" (what the realtors don't say: "...at 2:30 AM on Wednesdays and Sundays"), these now-nice areas would get more and more built up with the influx of "city folk". After all, why is it that eastern counties like Pike County are getting so built up and becoming so expensive? Because, a $200,000 house in the country is like a dream to people who'd have to spend five times that much to get a similar house in the city.
So, what do you think are the chances that those areas you mentioned will remain insulated from urban sprawl? People are crazy... they'll commute 150 miles each way especially if they can do it by train. I should know. I did it once... by car. It would've been WAY nice to do it by train, where I could sleep en route. I've been to Hamlin and it was nice, but what's the future looking like? According to the census data I have, Wayne County increased in population by 10.7% from 2000 to 2010 and it is presently in the 7th decile for population density (for my calculations that means that only 30-40% of all counties in the USA are more densely populated... so it's solidly in the "more densely populated half"). It seems to be trending upward in population.
Remain insulated? Pretty good in our life time.
For what you want, this is as good as it gets.
Cheap living in nice homes and extra money to travel.
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
1) Cheap houses / cost of living: By "cheap", I don't mean "$150,000 houses and open land is $20,000 an acre". I mean more like "$50,000 will get you a decently nice house and open land is less than $1,000 an acre". Also, if it's a cheap house but in a really high tax state, the numbers start to cancel out.
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There are plenty of lots/land parcels here in the south that are in that price range however they are either far away from major cities (or anything else for that matter) or they are near stuff but are in what we refer to down here as subdivisions. Subdivision lots are generally pretty small well under an acre and have restrictions of architectural style and so on and so forth. Many of the subd. lots that are being sold are in subds where the original developer went belly up after having built and sold some houses.
Land can also be cheap because it is undesirable for some other reason... It might be under powerlines, next to a train track, in an area with a lot of mobiles, it could be in a flood plain, it could have access issues and many other issues. You have to really do your homework when buying land,.
You can build your own house for <$50,000. In my area of Metro Atlanta, GA, you can find numerous really quite nice foreclosed/ bank owned homes for under $50k too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
2) Safe / nice area: VERY low crime (the lower the better), nice people, you could leave your house unlocked while you're gone all day and feel 99.9% certain that nobody would even consider going in without your prior approval. "Gangs? What are gangs?" "Nah, they got drug problems in the city but not here." Etc.
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Land parcels and REO properties range from ghetto to middle of BFE and everything in between.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
3) Healthy economy: It would still be reasonably expected that you could start a business and make a living in the area, even if you provided a "luxury service" that tends to be one of the first things to get chopped when the household income decreases... without having to drive all over the place to find clients.
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I don't follow you here.
I wouldn't classify any of the US economy as "healthy" at the moment. If you are asking about operating a small business or home occupation, then presumably, if you can buy a property outright or build with money you have saved up then instead of paying a fortune each month in interest to go straight to the banksters, you could instead save that money and be able to get by on less money. It's a lot easier to save money than it is to make more. Unfortunately the cheapest land tends to be far far away from opportunities and conveniences.
(((
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
What do you think? Does such an area exist? If yes, where? (Here's some helpful info. I'm going to check the City-Data profile of any town you mention. I expect to find a median house price under $100,000, an unemployment rate under 10%, a median household income figure of $30,000 or more, and a crime index averaging under 100 if a crime index is listed at all. Maybe some of y'all will know where this place exists so I don't have to check every town individually. If the town you're going to mention doesn't fit those criteria, it isn't what I seek.)
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IMO, the best strategy is to find some cheap land in an area that will work for you, then build a home on it. I'm not talking about your typical contractor style home. I'm talking about smaller, alternative, usually more sustainable construction and architectural styles. And I'm not talking about hiring a contractor. When I say "build" I mean read up on how to build the home then actually build it yourself. Otherwise buy a bank owned property.
Last edited by cittic10; 07-15-2012 at 10:44 AM..
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