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Old 07-13-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,591,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
What???

Anyways, I could post a picture of somewhere else in Houston that resembles Central Texas. You only showed one picture and that one picture only shows one aspect of Houston's landscape.
most of houston looks like that. most of houston looks like the gulf coast of the southern united states. kdogg said that houston doesn't resemble east texas and i gave him an example of how that isn't true at all
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,653 posts, read 27,092,504 times
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East Texas from what were taught was Tyler, Longview, Marshall, Kilgore, Nacogdoches, Lufkin, Silsbee, etc. Houston was the gulf coast, southeast Texas, or Texas coastal bend. Houston does not market itself as East Texas either. They market it as Gulf Coast overall and sometimes Southeast Texas. But East Texas is never mentioned for Houston and with good reason. The city is different from those cities. Now I will not rule out the possibility that there maybe a couple sources that one would find to state that Houston is in East Texas. But you will find more sources that will state that Houston is in the Coastal Bend or Gulf Coast.

I also have never heard Houston referred to as being in the Deep South and I agree with AK123 and Jluke. I have no problem with saying Cleveland or w/e. But I find Houston much more Texan or Western South than Deep South. Now was Houston Deep South before? Most likely. But overtime, this has changed due to rapidly changing demographics and growth.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:49 PM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,591,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
East Texas from what were taught was Tyler, Longview, Marshall, Kilgore, Nacogdoches, Lufkin, Silsbee, etc. Houston was the gulf coast, southeast Texas, or Texas coastal bend. Houston does not market itself as East Texas either. They market it as Gulf Coast overall and sometimes Southeast Texas. But East Texas is never mentioned for Houston and with good reason. The city is different from those cities. Now I will not rule out the possibility that there maybe a couple sources that one would find to state that Houston is in East Texas. But you will find more sources that will state that Houston is in the Coastal Bend or Gulf Coast.
whether or not people want to say that houston is still culturally a part of east texas today is not really what i'm concerned with. as long as people recognize that for most of it's years as a city it was east texas, and is still east texas at heart

Quote:
I also have never heard Houston referred to as being in the Deep South and I agree with AK123 and Jluke. I have no problem with saying Cleveland or w/e. But I find Houston much more Texan or Western South than Deep South. Now was Houston Deep South before? Most likely. But overtime, this has changed due to rapidly changing demographics and growth.
so let's just say the same for atlanta, okay?
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:02 PM
 
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right...I just dont see how it can be excluded from the deep south solely on the merits of a transforming demography.

some criteria (in my humble opinion) are much more transitory than others. For me, history, topography, geography, climate, economy, are relative constants. I cant say the same for demographics or modern politics..those things change with the wind and they are consequences of modern human migration after industrialism. similar to the way that an area like Atlanta or Raleigh has an increasing NY transplant population...those are consequences of transportation technology not culture nor geography.

For me, such criteria as the fact that Houston had sugar cane fields, *obviously: sugarland* a gulf coast climate, with cotton, oil and seafood as drivers for its economy; and until only recently, had a black and white majority and was originally settled, and therefore cultured, by East Texans, Louisianans and Mississippi migrants. Contains Piney woods, spanish moss, swamps, & Coastal plains/beach topography, and it shares the same time zone as many other parts of the deep south coupled with the fact that it is directly adjacent to the rest of the deep south. Cajun/Creole cultural influence found in coastal louisiana & mississippi. Black catholic influence found in the those states - all of these factor into how I view Houston in relation to the rest of the Deep south.

Last edited by solytaire; 07-13-2010 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,591,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
right...I just dont see how it can be excluded from the deep south solely on the merits of a transforming demography.

some criteria (in my humble opinion) are much more transitory than others. For me, history, topography, geography, climate, economy, are relative constants. I cant say the same for demographics or modern politics..those things change with the wind and they are consequences of modern human migration after industrialism. similar to the way that an area like Atlanta or Raleigh has an increasing NY population...those are consequences of technology not culture nor geography.

For me, such criteria as the fact that Houston had sugar cane fields, *obviously: sugarland* a gulf coast climate, with cotton, oil and seafood as drivers for its economy; and until only recently, had a black and white majority and was originally settled, and therefore cultured, by East Texans, Louisianans and Mississippi migrants. Contains Piney woods, spanish moss, swamps, & Coastal plains/beach topography, and it shares the same time zone as many other parts of the deep south coupled with the fact that it is directly adjacent to the rest of the deep south. Cajun/Creole cultural influence found in coastal louisiana & mississippi. Black catholic influence found in the those states - all of these factor into how I view Houston in relation to the rest of the Deep south.
exactly, historically there is nothing separating houston from the deep south

every major city in the country has or is experiencing demographic changes. next they're going to tell me that new york city is really the caribbean
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,653 posts, read 27,092,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
whether or not people want to say that houston is still culturally a part of east texas today is not really what i'm concerned with. as long as people recognize that for most of it's years as a city it was east texas, and is still east texas at heart


so let's just say the same for atlanta, okay?
I don't really care about Atlanta. My point was on Houston and I never heard anyone call it a city in the Deep South until I read this thread.

Also, no, I would not call Houston an East Texas city at it's heart. There has always been a difference between East Texas and the Gulf Coast.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,591,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I don't really care about Atlanta. My point was on Houston and I never heard anyone call it a city in the Deep South until I read this thread.

Also, no, I would not call Houston an East Texas city at it's heart. There has always been a difference between East Texas and the Gulf Coast.
wrong. for most of houston's history it was culturally akin to east texas (except for the coastal characteristics). how many times do i have to say this?

now explain to me why the gulf coast absolutely has to be separated from east texas. why is it so difficult for people to just include the houston area as a subregion? southeast texas is not culturally similar to the rest of the coastal bend

you've been in d.c. too long, bruh
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,653 posts, read 27,092,504 times
Reputation: 9584
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post

For me, such criteria as the fact that Houston had sugar cane fields, *obviously: sugarland* a gulf coast climate, with cotton, oil and seafood as drivers for its economy; and until only recently, had a black and white majority and was originally settled, and therefore cultured, by East Texans, Louisianans and Mississippi migrants. Contains Piney woods, spanish moss, swamps, & Coastal plains/beach topography, and it shares the same time zone as many other parts of the deep south coupled with the fact that it is directly adjacent to the rest of the deep south. Cajun/Creole cultural influence found in coastal louisiana & mississippi. Black catholic influence found in the those states - all of these factor into how I view Houston in relation to the rest of the Deep south.
I will give you the cotton but the oil and seafood industry is much more related to the Gulf Coastal region than it is to the Deep South, right? Because when I say seafood and South, I immediately think Gulf Coast and Florida's Atlantic Coast. You will find a few on this board and several sources throughout the internet differentiate Southern Louisiana from the rest of Louisiana especially New Orleans.

Houston contains Piney Woods on the North and Eastern side of the metro. The Southern and Western side of the metro looks more like the Texas coastal bend than it does any other region. For that reason alone, topographically, you can't pigeonhole the city of Houston into the Deep South. Now I said historically, Houston may have been a solid Deep South city even though I never heard it being called that before but I'll give you that. Today and in the future, Houston being a Deep South city is pretty much dead now. It is completely different from the cities fully entrenched in the Deep South like the cities I named before.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,233,438 times
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so let me ask this...does Austin being in the Hill Country mean that its not in Central Texas -

Does the fact that El Paso is in the Trans Pecos, mean that its not in West Texas?

Does Marshall being in the Arklatex, mean that it is not in East Texas?

Does Beaumont being in the Golden Triangle/southeast Texas, mean that its not in East Texas at all?

Does Corpus Christy being a gulf coast city, mean that its not in south Texas?

Exactly how are we distinguishing these regions here?
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:36 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,233,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I will give you the cotton but the oil and seafood industry is much more related to the Gulf Coastal region than it is to the Deep South, right? Because when I say seafood and South, I immediately think Gulf Coast and Florida's Atlantic Coast. You will find a few on this board and several sources throughout the internet differentiate Southern Louisiana from the rest of Louisiana especially New Orleans.

Houston contains Piney Woods on the North and Eastern side of the metro. The Southern and Western side of the metro looks more like the Texas coastal bend than it does any other region. For that reason alone, topographically, you can't pigeonhole the city of Houston into the Deep South. Now I said historically, Houston may have been a solid Deep South city even though I never heard it being called that before but I'll give you that. Today and in the future, Houston being a Deep South city is pretty much dead now. It is completely different from the cities fully entrenched in the Deep South like the cities I named before.
What other major cities are entrenched in the Deep south?..I think I might have missed them...

Im not aware of any other major deep south metros that TODAY, fit the stereotype of a deep south area.

Regarding the topography...I can honestly say that Im not aware of any city along the gulf coast region (deep south or otherwise) that has piney woods on its south end, abutting the gulf of mexico
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