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Old 07-26-2010, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,167,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
I never said Texas was part of the southwest; it was what my teachers said. It's very much subjective because the far western parts have completely different history from the rest of the south. No one in El Paso, Corpus Christi, Brownsville, etc are calling themselves southerners. This is just you speaking for others. Your just speaking from what you know, but Texas history is much more complex than the rest of the south.

I prefer to say Texas is Texas or South Central. To a lesser extent, Western South.
Those areas passed the Nueces river was added to texas after the war. The Original Texas was areas east of the Nueces and (correct me if I am wrong) Oklahoma. The Area was for most of its history southern.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:40 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,113,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
I this this whole thing is subjective and a wasted argument. Texas is different from the rest of the south because of how geographically, culturally, and historically diverse the state is.

People are taught differently all over Texas. The majority of my teachers referred to Texas as the southwest. Maybe people in East Texas were taught it was the south. However, not everyone was taught the same.
This is the real essence of why there is so much confusion over it all. That is, the varying definitions of what is the Southwest?

Texas is very part of the Old Southwest. And it is not inaccurate at all to call Texas "Southwestern" in that way. Where the South combines with characteristics of the western frontier.

But it is not Southwestern in the same sense as Arizona or New Mexico. This is where the whole thing becomes so confusing and almost incomprehensible.

There are just two different Southwests. One (Texas and Oklahoma, mostly) are Western South. The Southwest of the South.

New Mexico and Arizona are the south of the West. There is nothing classically Southern about them. Just as there is little "Western" about Texas if those states and the Rocky Mountain states are the standard of comparisson.

IMHO, geography teachers are lax in their duties if they place Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Arizona into a common region of the Southwest. It does no justice to the very different historical/cultural aspects of the two couplet states...
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
I've got news for you...the Gulf Coast is solidly considered the "Deep South"...and according to your critieria, Atlanta wouldn't be part of it either.

I know the title "Deep South" brings with it a negative image, and your very passionate denial of Houston's inclusion is obviously connected to that negative perception - it reeks of embarrassment. I vote we find some other terminology to replace it...no one really wants to be part of it if the truth were known.

I suggested South East, South Central, and South West as the three divisions of the southern region...or the one I really like: Atlantic South, Gulf South, and Mountain South. I am also partial to the suggestion of a Piedmont South, but that really cuts up several states.
Not embarrassment, accuracy. Houston, and Texas for that matter, with the exception of East Texas, is not part of the Deep South. You may have missed the part where I said I grew up deep in the heart of East Texas. Although I disagree in general that any part of Texas is truly Deep South because it is too diluted with "Texanness," I will not argue with anyone who considers East Texas the Deep South. I will argue mightily against Houston being included in that classification, though.

Atlanta has nothing to do with it. It is solidly in the South, surrounded by the South. Texas is not. It's a vast border state bigger than France with many different cultural influences and varied terrain depending on what part of the state you're in.

Last edited by houstoner; 07-26-2010 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
This is the real essence of why there is so much confusion over it all. That is, the varying definitions of what is the Southwest?

Texas is very part of the Old Southwest. And it is not inaccurate at all to call Texas "Southwestern" in that way. Where the South combines with characteristics of the western frontier.

But it is not Southwestern in the same sense as Arizona or New Mexico. This is where the whole thing becomes so confusing and almost incomprehensible.

There are just two different Southwests. One (Texas and Oklahoma, mostly) are Western South. The Southwest of the South.

New Mexico and Arizona are the south of the West. There is nothing classically Southern about them. Just as there is little "Western" about Texas if those states and the Rocky Mountain states are the standard of comparisson.

IMHO, geography teachers are lax in their duties if they place Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Arizona into a common region of the Southwest. It does no justice to the very different historical/cultural aspects of the two couplet states...
I don't remember learning Texas was part of the Southwest in school, perhaps because I grew up in East Texas, which is most definitely not SW. I learned Texas was considered part of the SW from friends from places like California and New Jersey. It's a common misconception, right along with how the entire state is all desert and tumbleweeds.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: where my heart is
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In NY people say Texas is in the deep south because it's no different than anywhere else in the south.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:29 AM
 
Location: America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotextist View Post

Atlanta has nothing to do with it. It is solidly in the South, surrounded by the South. Texas is not. It's a vast border state bigger than France with many different cultural influences and varied terrain depending on what part of the state you're in.
texas is not one monolithic region. just because cities like dallas, austin, and san antonio aren't the deep south doesn't mean houston isn't. houston has always been considered more stereotypically southern than these other cities. and so what houston isn't "surrounded" by "the south" for miles and miles? the deep south has to start somewhere, and it starts in eastern texas. including houston.

you say atlanta has nothing to do with it, but fact of the matter is, the same reasons you cite for houston not being the deep south apply to atlanta as well. having a lot of outside influences. you can even go to the atlanta forum right now and see plenty threads talking about how atlanta isn't really the south. so if someone wants to say that houston is no longer the deep south, that's fine with me, but they have to say the same thing about atlanta as well

and like i said before, everything about houston's history from the civil war to the 1900s points to it being the deep south. even galveston used to be largest exporter of cotton in the nation
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:36 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,584,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotextist View Post
Although I disagree in general that any part of Texas is truly Deep South because it is too diluted with "Texanness," I will not argue with anyone who considers East Texas the Deep South.
and where is this so-called obvious "texanness" in east texas? i'll admit that the region has that texan identity, but my whole life i've known that the region itself has far more in common with the southeast than it does the rest of the state
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:20 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
texas is not one monolithic region. just because cities like dallas, austin, and san antonio aren't the deep south doesn't mean houston isn't. houston has always been considered more stereotypically southern than these other cities. and so what houston isn't "surrounded" by "the south" for miles and miles? the deep south has to start somewhere, and it starts in eastern texas. including houston.

you say atlanta has nothing to do with it, but fact of the matter is, the same reasons you cite for houston not being the deep south apply to atlanta as well. having a lot of outside influences. you can even go to the atlanta forum right now and see plenty threads talking about how atlanta isn't really the south. so if someone wants to say that houston is no longer the deep south, that's fine with me, but they have to say the same thing about atlanta as well

and like i said before, everything about houston's history from the civil war to the 1900s points to it being the deep south. even galveston used to be largest exporter of cotton in the nation
Mainly we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I just want to point out this may be an issue of semantics. "Eastern Texas" and East Texas are not the same thing. When I lived in East Texas we did not consider Houston to be part of it. East Texas is places like Marshall, Mt. Vernon, Longview, Nacogdoches, etc. There is no such place as "Eastern Texas." If by that you mean the eastern half of the state, ok, but it shouldn't be capitalized because it's not a legitimately recognized cultural or geographic region that I'm aware of. I think most Houstonians would agree that Houston identifies with Southeast Texas (and even then it's worlds away from the Golden Triangle) and the Gulf Coast, not East Texas. Actually, maybe you should ask this in the Houston forum. I'd be interested to see who they think is right.
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,584,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neotextist View Post
Mainly we'll have to agree to disagree here, but I just want to point out this may be an issue of semantics. "Eastern Texas" and East Texas are not the same thing. When I lived in East Texas we did not consider Houston to be part of it. East Texas is places like Marshall, Mt. Vernon, Longview, Nacogdoches, etc. There is no such place as "Eastern Texas." If by that you mean the eastern half of the state, ok, but it shouldn't be capitalized because it's not a legitimately recognized cultural or geographic region that I'm aware of. I think most Houstonians would agree that Houston identifies with Southeast Texas (and even then it's worlds away from the Golden Triangle) and the Gulf Coast, not East Texas. Actually, maybe you should ask this in the Houston forum. I'd be interested to see who they think is right.
i actually started a thread a few months back asking whether or not houstonians viewed their city as part of east texas. most said no, but that doesn't change what i know to be true. that houston is historically a part of southeast texas, and southeast texas is a subregion of east texas

there's northeast texas, there's deep east texas, and there's southeast texas. plain and simple
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:47 AM
 
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker to new jerseyite ;)
4,085 posts, read 11,452,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
i actually started a thread a few months back asking whether or not houstonians viewed their city as part of east texas. most said no, but that doesn't change what i know to be true. that houston is historically a part of southeast texas, and southeast texas is a subregion of east texas

there's northeast texas, there's deep east texas, and there's southeast texas. plain and simple
I thought so. That's because it's more than words; there's history, culture, and geography to take into account. It lools like you got some great explanations in that thread. I don't know why you're still debating this. Do you consider Houston a part of East Texas? But whatever. Believe what you want. You will anyway.

Last edited by houstoner; 07-26-2010 at 11:03 AM.. Reason: adding link
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