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Old 07-12-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 13,187,227 times
Reputation: 3642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
You havent really provided any factual evidence that would exclude Houston from the deep south...You've predictably cherry picked a few criteria that marginally distinguish it from the stereotypically rural deep south.
Sure I have. I don't think I'm cherry-picking... everything named in my last post were descriptives created by the creator of the map, not me.
The other evidence I gave previous to that is rather significant.
If anyone's cherry-picking and grasping for straws, I think it's you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
In terms of sheer numerics Houston actually has the largest black population in the south.
Which is not very significant, because it's also the largest city in the south. 25% Black is a small percentage compared to many other metros, and it's even a lower percent as you expand to metro population. This subject has been beaten like a dead horse here in city-data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Percentage wise, its black population cannot really be given an apples to apples comparison given its recently burgeoned latino, African, and international populations.
Houston and Dallas mirror each other almost exactly as far as racial percentages. FACT. Houston is much more similar to Dallas than to "deep south" places like Mississippi or Alabama. I don't need to "cherry-pick" data for that to be obvious, seems you just have some odd reasoning for thinking it needs to be excluded from the other major metros in Texas, as if it's so dramatically different (which is incorrect.)
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 13,187,227 times
Reputation: 3642
I think the way Texas is divided in these maps is much more accurate.
Notice Houston is included with most of the rest of Texas, not with other states.

South cultural regions map

South cultural regions alt map

SMU.edu anthropology
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:42 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,235,342 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK123 View Post
Sure I have. I don't think I'm cherry-picking... everything named in my last post were descriptives created by the creator of the map, not me.
The other evidence I gave previous to that is rather significant.
If anyone's cherry-picking and grasping for straws, I think it's you.
Nah...Imo, the criteria you use are flawed at best...but its your opinion so you're entitled to it, as am I.


Quote:
Which is not very significant, because it's also the largest city in the south. 25% Black is a small percentage compared to many other metros, and it's even a lower percent as you expand to metro population. This subject has been beaten like a dead horse here in city-data.
sure its significant...it means that it has always had deep south demographics until recent international migration to the city.


Quote:
Houston and Dallas mirror each other almost exactly as far as racial percentages. FACT. Houston is much more similar to Dallas than to "deep south" places like Mississippi or Alabama. I don't need to "cherry-pick" data for that to be obvious, seems you just have some odd reasoning for thinking it needs to be excluded from the other major metros in Texas, as if it's so dramatically different (which is incorrect.)
"FACT" Houston is much more similar to pretty much any other gulf coastal city than it is Dallas....Houston is dramatically different than some of the other metros in the state...The regions of the state themselves are dramatically different from one another. Your reasoning is flawed: you're vacillating between comparing Texas cities to Texas cities and Texas cities to entire states with no major metros..but whatever, you have your opinion and I have mine.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:58 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,235,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
If Houston is deep south; than NC is DEFINITELY deep south.

The south is very different though and it's really hard to label what is deep south because even the states considered deep south are different. Louisiana and Mississippi have more in common with East/Central Texas than Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina.
IDK about that though...I think much of NC culture is almost completely estranged from the lower south culture. I mean, there was a pretty noticeable difference between the cotton and oil states vs. the colonial/tobacco states. Or the states with a mountaineering coal mining influence vs. states with only a gulf coastal or inland influence. so, for me, I wouldnt place NC in the Deep south of LA and Mississippi, south carolina, GA and AL. It felt more like a mix between Mid south, Appalachia, and Colonial south to me...clearly very southern in every way..but southern in different ways than the deep south.

And while I agree that LA and Miss. have more in common with East and Central TX than they do with GA or Alabama...I dont think they have much at all in common with NC.

When forced to break it down, I would place NC with KY, TN and Virginia in terms of culture and history. I would pair AL, GA, North FLA and south carolina together. And LA, Miss, AR and east/central TX/OK together.

Last edited by solytaire; 07-12-2010 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:58 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 13,187,227 times
Reputation: 3642
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Nah...Imo, the criteria you use are flawed at best...but its your opinion so you're entitled to it, as am I.
Yet again, all talk but no real evidence.
How are my criteria "flawed at best?" What are your superior criteria? Again, statements with nothing to back them up.
If you want to say it's your opinion, fine, but then admit you have no evidence to back your opinion. Don't start belittling the facts and evidence given by others because it doesn't fit in with your subjective opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
sure its significant...it means that it has always had deep south demographics until recent international migration to the city.
Hispanic immigration is recent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
"FACT" Houston is much more similar to pretty much any other gulf coastal city than it is Dallas...
Houston is more similar demographically and socially to New Orleans or Mobile AL than to Dallas? Just wrong.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:11 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,235,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK123 View Post
Yet again, all talk but no real evidence.
How are my criteria "flawed at best?" What are your superior criteria? Again, statements with nothing to back them up.
If you want to say it's your opinion, fine, but then admit you have no evidence to back your opinion. Don't start belittling the facts and evidence given by others because it doesn't fit in with your subjective opinion.
I figure if you can do it why shouldnt I..you havent presented any "real evidence" to back your opinion and you wont. Everything you have presented is some flawed diatribe about voter trends, poverty, and Houston's relation to Dallas...I'd have to see some facts in order to start belittling them..and so far non have been presented in context. Dont start presenting your vacuous opinion as facts just because other people disagree with your opinion.

Quote:
Hispanic immigration is recent?
Did you not see that I wrote "international"? That word means, people from everywhere...not just hispanic countries

Quote:
Houston is more similar demographically and socially to New Orleans or Mobile AL than to Dallas? Just wrong.
Yes, I agree you have been very wrong..but that is your right.

Last edited by solytaire; 07-12-2010 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:19 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,235,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Houston isn't deep south. I've been to Charlotte and it felt much more stereotypical southern than Houston.Houston is one the few cities in the country that has influences from two different regions (Texas Triangle and Gulf Coast). Your not going to find many cities in the Deep south that have such a strong creole/cajun influence and as well as a relatively large black catholic population.
I do agree that Charlotte feels stereotypically southern...but again, smaller cities will always feel more regional than large ones. Too, if Im not mistaken, catholicism and cajun influence extends into southern Mississippi as well...so in that regard, Houston does share a few commonalities with other deep south areas. But again, I think much of the debate will boil down to rural vs urban.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 13,187,227 times
Reputation: 3642
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I figure if you can do it why shouldnt I..you havent presented any real evidence to back your opinion and you wont.
I don't think you are carefully reading my posts, or reading the descriptives in the OP's posted map. And now are not even making any sense at this point, just being combative.

All I have to do is google for similar maps, and they all disagree with you. The ball is in your court to present compelling evidence to back your opinion, yet you haven't. Being combative and saying the other person is wrong for no good reason doesn't count as evidence.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:41 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,235,342 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK123 View Post
I don't think you are carefully reading my posts, or reading the descriptives in the OP's posted map. And now are not even making any sense at this point, just being combative.

All I have to do is google for similar maps, and they all disagree with you. The ball is in your court to present compelling evidence to back your opinion, yet you haven't. Being combative and saying the other person is wrong for no good reason doesn't count as evidence.
..combative?...lol..yes, Im going to send you computer a virus because I disagree with some random internet poster's opinion of the south...grrr, that really ruins my day...

that may make sense in your world, but its not that serious imo...Just calm down and regroup...stop being so defensive...you have your opinion and I have mine.

Dont forget: making vague and flawed statements about Houston having more in common with Dallas doesnt count as evidence either..lol You are under the misguided impression that self proclaimations that you have presented evidence, no matter how vague or flawed = default authority. To me, nothing you have said even remotely warrants excluding Houston from the deep south at all by my standards. And truth be told, it wont...we use different criteria..you will cherry pick criteria that matter to you to support your subjective opinion, and I will pick criteria that support mine. Which is all that anyone can do when defining these relative geographic demarcations.

But then again, if you want to believe that Houston isnt in the deep south, then believe that...doesnt change my day one way or the other...You said it best, the ball is in your court... but make sure you learn the rules of the game before you serve.

Last edited by solytaire; 07-12-2010 at 02:49 PM..
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:25 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,120,327 times
Reputation: 279
I am thinking on this debate with Houston, isn't there particuar areas of the metro that are one way or the other? Basically it is a split metro. Also that SMU map has in it Non-Conforming metro areas, maybe that could be a good descriptor for Houston in this case.
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