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Old 08-09-2012, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,885 posts, read 6,207,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I am not sure if you are talking about Ft. Worth or El Paso here, Spade, but if it is it Ft. Worth, then the Southern influences are definitely there and never have lacked in the least.. It is "western South" ...frontier South, perhaps even Cowboy South...but Fort Worth NEVER denied nor tried to, its essentially Southern roots and the Southern elements that -- of itself -- made it "western and Southern".

El Paso? Yeah, I would generally go along there...but still keep in mind that that county went for secession and there is a Confederate monument on the courthouse lawn...and there is Jeff Davis County in that area. Point being, even FAR west Texas has Southern influences not typical of the interior SW of NM and AZ.
West Texas is "southern" in that it is influenced by the state of Texas being southern as you point out. However, the terrain and climate of west Texas are certainly different and are more in line with the west.

As far as Ft Worth goes, it has the southern influence due to Texas. It has the western influence due to it's history in the cattle industry, and it has a great plains influence because that is the region that it is located.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Nesconset, NY
2,203 posts, read 3,487,699 times
Reputation: 2125
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
I recently saw a map where parts of Wyoming, Montana, and Colorado were excluded from the West.

In your opinion, where does the West begin? Are Denver and Cheyenne western cities? Or does the West not begin until Salt Lake City or Phoenix?
My first reaction would be to say, "Where the foothills of the Rocky Mts. are."
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,650 posts, read 27,087,224 times
Reputation: 9580
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
I am not sure if you are talking about Ft. Worth or El Paso here, Spade, but if it is it Ft. Worth, then the Southern influences are definitely there and never have lacked in the least.. It is "western South" ...frontier South, perhaps even Cowboy South...but Fort Worth NEVER denied nor tried to, its essentially Southern roots and the Southern elements that -- of itself -- made it "western and Southern".

El Paso? Yeah, I would generally go along there...but still keep in mind that that county went for secession and there is a Confederate monument on the courthouse lawn...and there is Jeff Davis County in that area. Point being, even FAR west Texas has Southern influences not typical of the interior SW of NM and AZ.
I was speaking about El Paso. I would say that over 95% of the population today couldn't care less about a confederate monument on the lawn or even care who it is. It's just the same in NOVA where people say isn't the South anymore, yet they have streets named after Confederate generals. I honestly don't think having the influence means much. There is a dixie highway in Chicago. And we know how dixie Chicago is.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,534 posts, read 17,764,884 times
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I consider the High Plains to be the start of the west, so if you are in the western half or so of the plains states (the Dakotas, Neb, Kan, Okla, Tex) then you are in the west. Another rule of thumb is where center-pivot irrigation exceeds dry farming in land use which correspond roughly with the line I drew above.
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:50 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,127,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
I was speaking about El Paso. I would say that over 95% of the population today couldn't care less about a confederate monument on the lawn or even care who it is. It's just the same in NOVA where people say isn't the South anymore, yet they have streets named after Confederate generals. I honestly don't think having the influence means much. There is a dixie highway in Chicago. And we know how dixie Chicago is.
Yeah, you are almost certainly right on this one, Spade. I was just attempting to point out that even a purely "desert Southwestern" city like El Paso, have some very strong Southern roots about it; historically, that is.

I would take issue though, with the analogy of Chicago and all. That is to say, unlike in Texas, these places were never considered part of the South at all. The "Dixie Highway" is really just a name for an early roadway whose origins are in the Deep South and run up there as a truckers route into the north, anymore.

But regardless, I DO concur with parts of what you say...especially the NOVA thingy... No question of the passing away of the South in those areas...
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:27 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,127,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
West Texas is "southern" in that it is influenced by the state of Texas being southern as you point out. However, the terrain and climate of west Texas are certainly different and are more in line with the west.
Yes, I have never disagreed at all that the general physical terrain, etc, of that part of Texas west of Ft. Worth is not in the least typical of the southeastern states. No question on that score.

BUT, then again, I would only go so far as to agree it is more in line with the west as opposed to the east. Actually, as you say (see below), most of that part of Texas not part of the Piney woods and semi-woods, are more "plains" than truly western...as in the sense of the true West of the Rockies and Interior Southwest. A transition area -- broadly speaking -- between the east and west...

Quote:
As far as Ft Worth goes, it has the southern influence due to Texas. It has the western influence due to it's history in the cattle industry.
Actually, it has Southern influence because it began as a generally Southern city. The old Cotton Exchange in Ft. Worth was at least if not equal to the Stockyard aspect..

Sure, it became a focal point of "the West"...but that "West" was not intended to deny its basic Southern {roots. Here is a great interview with a a fellow who recently wrote a book I have just GOT to read. He puts the beginnings of the West wayyyyy western of Ft. Worth. Here is a blurb and link:

http://www.texashistory.com/Portals/...legram.com.pdf

After the Civil War and Reconstruction, state leaders looked to rebrand Texas, repackaging its identity as forward-looking, modern and progressive. Toward this end, Texas possessed something that its sister states in the Confederacy lacked. ... The first was its Texas Revolution identity, and Texans could also escape their Southern heritage by heading out West to blend in with the cowboys, cattle drives and gunslingers. ... Since the 1980s, there's been a needed correction, reintegrating our Southern legacy into the state's narrative. It's important to remember that Texas is many things. Its identity is complex and cannot be fully understood within the limited Southern, Western or independent context.

The above is a point -- even though I quibble a bit with the author -- that is really all I want to make.

That is, that a LOT of the reason some don't consider Texas "Southern" is because there was a concerted effort early on -- beginning in the Great Depression Era with politicians and businessmen (LBJ was a big player in all this) -- to put distance between Texas and it essentially Southern roots and institutions.

The concept was to remake it into a "Western" state with all the cowboys and cattle imagry...even if they had to put a square peg into a round hole to do so. Even LBJ admitted such, after he retired and no longer had any need to pretend. See his book "Vantage Point" for instance...

Quote:
...and it has a great plains influence because that is the region that it is located
Well, sure, large swaths of Texas DO have "Great Plains" characteristics? But that is about all they are. As is in that topographically? Yes, Texas is part of the Frontier Strip.

Frontier Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yet that doesn't mean it is part of the same historical/cultural region...as with those states north of Oklahoma...
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,232,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baybie Alyssa View Post
I consider the West to begin on a north - south line that runs though the western portions of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.
EXACTLY
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: IN
20,857 posts, read 35,987,118 times
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Basically 100W longitude line is the start of the West. In the Dakotas that would be mainly west of the Missouri River, or "West River."
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:55 PM
 
6,127 posts, read 6,452,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Basically 100W longitude line is the start of the West. In the Dakotas that would be mainly west of the Missouri River, or "West River."
Yep. Cross the Missouri River in South Dakota and tell me you are still in the midwest. LOL
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,350 posts, read 21,922,845 times
Reputation: 33568
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeagleLady View Post
Yep. Cross the Missouri River in South Dakota and tell me you are still in the midwest. LOL
indeed, ha ha ha....those mountain people, I mean really now.
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