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Old 03-12-2011, 12:26 PM
 
350 posts, read 607,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missRoxyhart View Post
I thought it was common knowledge that German was the most common and largest ancestry in the US, it is. At the time of WW1, Germans were by then the largest ancestry group in the country and one of the largest immigrant groups. It was thought and feared that the US could go either way in supporting the Allies or the Central Powers with poor white ethnics especially from Central Power countries backing neutrality and other richer, "older stock", or ethnically English and Western European ancestry groups backing intervention on the side of the Allies.

Even before the war began a huge amount of animosity was shown against German Americans and it really ramped up during the war. That caused so many Germans and other groups to Americanize and assimilated and destroyed sooo many German speaking communities around the country (of which there were tons), German newspapers stopped printing, cultural societies, German churches and German (language) schools disbanded and things like that, many people changed their names to sound more English and American. The vast majority of the culture basically died and assimilated.

Those effects last until today, there was a very rich German American culture that started in the 19th century that basically went extinct because of WW1. You can even see by the time of WW2, there were far less problems if any major ones at all with German Americans who had all pretty much assimilated by that point and mass immigration from Germany to the US besides Jews had died down decades ago. Notice how you never hear of animosity towards Italian American during WW2 either even though the US was at war with Italy? The Japanese on the other hand unfortunately weren't so lucky.

Anyway, here's some visuals of the situation today, Germans remain the largest ancestry group in the US.

The light blue is German, the light purple is English.


A more simple one, blue is German, purple is English.


And the situation as of 2000.
These tables show only the ethnic majority. In some counties, there are 19% of the population who define themselves as German ancestry, and 18% of English or Irish ancestry. It varies very little. If we redo the table in 2011 there would be many changes.

As already mentioned, English American are present and integrated into the society since a long time that it's very difficult to know their exact number.

I really want to see what the results would be if we remove "American ancestry"
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Old 03-12-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,720,777 times
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I have heard that the Carolinas are the most 'German' states in the south. Missouri, if you consider it to be 'The South' is also obviously full of people with German ancestry.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,562,228 times
Reputation: 3232
Most German-Americans in Missouri live in the "Midwestern" part of the state.
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:04 PM
 
351 posts, read 550,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Well there are a ton here in Memphis and surrounding small towns and they're just as Southern as anyone with the last names you listed.
There are plenty of small towns in Arkansas started by German settlers. Some of them with the same names as cities back in Germany. Stuttgart and Hamburg for example. And they have lots of people with very long unpronouncable German names.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:16 PM
 
1 posts, read 8,353 times
Reputation: 20
Ok, just needed to post because this age old arguement needs to to be put to rest. Americans have become such German wannabes and self haters its ridiculous.

Firstly, immigration:

People from the British isles have been immigrating to this country in mass numbers SINCE colonial times. Lets backtrack a little the largest wave of Germans came in the 19th century, the greatest number was 6 million. What are you smoking to think 6 million German Americans could outnumber/outbreed the population of British Americans who have been migrating for hundreds of years in such a short time? Clearly nowhere near 40 or 50 million. The real German American input should be much lower & far less than even 20 million (Even today Caucasians from the British Isles still make up the bulk of European immigrants). Some people claim most Americans in the Midwest are German. Ok, lets examine that theory for a minute, all those states have relatively small populations and even if they were all "100% German states" they would not NEARLY have the number to make up 50 million, i mean c'mon.

The problem is here, German is foreign to Americans. You have a lot of Americans who don't know their ancestries past 3 generations so they either A) Lie, don't know what they are. B) Pick the most recent ethnicity ignoring their ancestors. English has blended in and become synonymous with "American", American culture is dominantly Anglo, its not as foreign, not as desired.

Secondly, Phenotype & Genetic Data:

No matter where you go in the United States. You will not find many White Americans who look like Til Sweiger or even Arnold Swarzenegger. Germans & Scandinavians look quite foreign next to the Typical white American who looks clearly of British isles origin (Note, German/Scandinavian phenotype =/= Blonde, blue eyed most Scandinavians have a clearly baltid influenced head shape that is foreign in America). Just because you're blonde does not mean you look like other blondes. Just like just because you're blonde doesn't mean you have a Nordic skull shape. As most Scandinavians are not Nordic in phenotype. They are Crogmagnid/Baltid. I don't know where the all Germans/Scandinavians blonde stereotype comes from anyway. Far from the truth, but its a moot point really because nearly ALL German Americans came from the South and this number also included non ethnic Germans. The South is ethnically different from the North. You have Germans who are darker in pigmentation & hair color and A LOT also have Slavic input from the history with their border they had with Poland.

Do you find this to be more typical of White Americans

http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/...er-profile.jpg


or these obvious British isles types that can be found in all corners of America.

http://www.librarising.com/astrology...paulwalker.jpg

http://mimg.ugo.com/201003/38931/liam-hemsworth.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/s1p0qr.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/uo387.jpg
http://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/f...830-156793.jpg

http://www.drugfreehomes.org/wp-cont...e-Crawford.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/5da53m.jpg

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/t...tonHaynes4.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hn289l.jpg

One was Australian, Two were Brits (and i gurantee you if i asked Americans to distinquish the brits they would be lost. One is rather easy because he has a cricket bat, the other not so much as he has a look that is pretty uber white american) & the rest American. Yet all of them are not foreign in any of those 3 countries. These are more or less the faces of the majority of entertainers, news anchors, and politicians of the US, Canada, & Australia. Add in the fact that most presidents were predominantly of English/British isles ancestry. That is no coincidence. If all your politicians look like it, if all your entertainers look like it then you can only be mostly it!

For every typical American white actor/actress there is a British look alike counterpart.

British isles ancestry is terribly underreported in the US, there's no way around it when all the evidence shows it. I am not shocked that its this way. Americans confuse phenotypes a lot and many of them don't even know what terms like "Nordic" actualy mean. I bet if half actually visited England they would see there is no extreme difference in how the British look from typical Americans.

This is an English guy

http://i45.tinypic.com/n1up81.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/6nt5if.jpg

He could easily come here, put on a fake American accent and NOONE would question whether he's American or not (Hell i recall some Americans not even knowing Christian Bale, Scott Speedman, & Kate Bekinsale was british) because his look is found everywhere in America where there is a strong white population. I see this type almost everyday.

Not even in Minnesota (the state claimed as Nordic land) do typical white americans look Scandinavian. It doesn't matter who you compare. Politicians, Actors, Singers, Pornstars the bulk of them look no different than typical Anglos in other Anglo dominated countries. Canadians (who are also mostly of british isles descent) as well as Australians ultimately don't look that much different from typical white Americans. Canadian actors can come here and pass as a typical White American (and Canada has an even smaller German input than America). Most people might think most of our actors in our Tv shows are American? NOPE, a lot of them are actualy Australian, British, & Canadian import actors like they were in Legend of the Seeker, Spartacus, Battlestar Gallactica, and many other mainstream television shows. Yet an American sees them as a typical White American when they don't use their accents. Thats more than enough evidence of who the real majority is. British people can (and have) easily come to the United States and fit in with the typical WASP population of America. Ive been to England, and honestly its like being in a less obese America.

TheApricity, Forumbiodiversity, most Americans who post their 23andme results (DNA testing) on these forums cluster with the UK more than anything. Not Germany. And most foreign people on these antropology sites who visit America come to the same conclusion. The majority of the whites look like whites from the British isles and other Anglo dominated nations such as New Zealand, Canada, Australia etc.

What America does have, is a load of Germaphiles. I don't understand for the life of me why more Americans aren't more proud of their British ancestries they invented & contributed a hell of a lot more to the modern world than Germans did in all fields, Be proud.

Third, Surnames:

Don't be silly. The assumption that EVERY single German American family could have Anglicised their names is extremely ridiculous and unfounded. As there are Italians and many other groups who still retain their original surnames. Heh, you could also turn that around and say how do you know that many of those Germans weren't actually German jews? or that many of the existing German surnames were not ethnic Germans. You could even go a bit further and say how do you know many of the people who report German ancestry could have had some non ethnic German speaking ancestor? I knew a guy who up until a few days ago thought his family was primarily German & Irish. Turns out he's mostly of English stock.

Regardless of African Americans having English names. If the so called German Americans were as high as the number claimed they were, you better be damn well you would see German surnames somewhere in the top & yet you do not.

Using the Census is pretty much useless at this point since demographers have already agreed that it was an overcount. Not to mention non ethnics & mixed people are also counted which renders its pretty inacurate. Irish are another group that should not be as high, as many of them AREN'T ethnic. The majority of Irish Americans were actualy Ulster-Scots.......see, the census doesn't project reality well at all. Keep in mind this is a census that also includes Arabs as white & also includes Hispanics as an ethnic group,

Fact is, the British component is the strongest in Whites of the Anglosphere. Most German Americans are not even close to being pure. Many Americans are mixed, but that does not negate the fact that the British component is strongest. Other white Americans will almost ALWAYS have English, Scottish, Welsh, or Irish input. Even the two Dutch presidents had British isles input & even the current Black one has British isles input. Americans just love overestimated non british isles ancestries i blame part of this on making "English" synonymous with "American".
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: the dairyland
1,195 posts, read 1,925,319 times
Reputation: 1570
Really? You just signed up to write a silly long unfounded post? Clearly you know almost nothing about the US or its population.
There are some reasonable arguments about British being undercounted but you presented not a single one of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norse View Post
....
What are you smoking
...
Actually that was the first question that popped up in my head after reading what you wrote.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,169,700 times
Reputation: 29451
I'm not gonna bother slogging through all 184 paragraphs of that mess. I'll just say "British Isles" != "English."
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:48 PM
 
5,858 posts, read 14,043,096 times
Reputation: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
Also that American ancestry is also mostly either English, Scottish, Scotch-Irish and are mostly Protestant. Taking all of those together they are likely greater than German ancestry but there are a good number of people with both ancestries in their family tree. A good indicator for determining the boundary between the South and Midwest is figuring out which group is greater, the combined British Isles ancestry or the German one. (Catholics vs. Baptists is another good line which is along a very similar line)

The only other place in the South I can think of with any German element is a small corner in South Carolina near Columbia. It also has a distinction of being the source of the mustard-based barbecue of that area.
A couple more I can think of: Mecklenburg County, NC and NOLA, with some rural areas just upriver.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:39 AM
 
Location: The heart of Cascadia
1,328 posts, read 2,648,355 times
Reputation: 815
Conversely, my family is supposedly all British Isles ancestry. However, on my father's side, we have been in America 400 years. Wouldn't you say it's likely that we have German, Spanish, Italian, French, even possibly Native etc mixed in with us?
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:59 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,149,123 times
Reputation: 3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norse View Post
Ok, just needed to post because this age old arguement needs to to be put to rest. Americans have become such German wannabes and self haters its ridiculous.

Firstly, immigration:

People from the British isles have been immigrating to this country in mass numbers SINCE colonial times. Lets backtrack a little the largest wave of Germans came in the 19th century, the greatest number was 6 million. What are you smoking to think 6 million German Americans could outnumber/outbreed the population of British Americans who have been migrating for hundreds of years in such a short time? Clearly nowhere near 40 or 50 million. The real German American input should be much lower & far less than even 20 million (Even today Caucasians from the British Isles still make up the bulk of European immigrants). Some people claim most Americans in the Midwest are German. Ok, lets examine that theory for a minute, all those states have relatively small populations and even if they were all "100% German states" they would not NEARLY have the number to make up 50 million, i mean c'mon.

The problem is here, German is foreign to Americans. You have a lot of Americans who don't know their ancestries past 3 generations so they either A) Lie, don't know what they are. B) Pick the most recent ethnicity ignoring their ancestors. English has blended in and become synonymous with "American", American culture is dominantly Anglo, its not as foreign, not as desired.

Secondly, Phenotype & Genetic Data:

No matter where you go in the United States. You will not find many White Americans who look like Til Sweiger or even Arnold Swarzenegger. Germans & Scandinavians look quite foreign next to the Typical white American who looks clearly of British isles origin (Note, German/Scandinavian phenotype =/= Blonde, blue eyed most Scandinavians have a clearly baltid influenced head shape that is foreign in America). Just because you're blonde does not mean you look like other blondes. Just like just because you're blonde doesn't mean you have a Nordic skull shape. As most Scandinavians are not Nordic in phenotype. They are Crogmagnid/Baltid. I don't know where the all Germans/Scandinavians blonde stereotype comes from anyway. Far from the truth, but its a moot point really because nearly ALL German Americans came from the South and this number also included non ethnic Germans. The South is ethnically different from the North. You have Germans who are darker in pigmentation & hair color and A LOT also have Slavic input from the history with their border they had with Poland.

Do you find this to be more typical of White Americans




or these obvious British isles types that can be found in all corners of America.

















One was Australian, Two were Brits (and i gurantee you if i asked Americans to distinquish the brits they would be lost. One is rather easy because he has a cricket bat, the other not so much as he has a look that is pretty uber white american) & the rest American. Yet all of them are not foreign in any of those 3 countries. These are more or less the faces of the majority of entertainers, news anchors, and politicians of the US, Canada, & Australia. Add in the fact that most presidents were predominantly of English/British isles ancestry. That is no coincidence. If all your politicians look like it, if all your entertainers look like it then you can only be mostly it!

For every typical American white actor/actress there is a British look alike counterpart.

British isles ancestry is terribly underreported in the US, there's no way around it when all the evidence shows it. I am not shocked that its this way. Americans confuse phenotypes a lot and many of them don't even know what terms like "Nordic" actualy mean. I bet if half actually visited England they would see there is no extreme difference in how the British look from typical Americans.

This is an English guy




He could easily come here, put on a fake American accent and NOONE would question whether he's American or not (Hell i recall some Americans not even knowing Christian Bale, Scott Speedman, & Kate Bekinsale was british) because his look is found everywhere in America where there is a strong white population. I see this type almost everyday.

Not even in Minnesota (the state claimed as Nordic land) do typical white americans look Scandinavian. It doesn't matter who you compare. Politicians, Actors, Singers, Pornstars the bulk of them look no different than typical Anglos in other Anglo dominated countries. Canadians (who are also mostly of british isles descent) as well as Australians ultimately don't look that much different from typical white Americans. Canadian actors can come here and pass as a typical White American (and Canada has an even smaller German input than America). Most people might think most of our actors in our Tv shows are American? NOPE, a lot of them are actualy Australian, British, & Canadian import actors like they were in Legend of the Seeker, Spartacus, Battlestar Gallactica, and many other mainstream television shows. Yet an American sees them as a typical White American when they don't use their accents. Thats more than enough evidence of who the real majority is. British people can (and have) easily come to the United States and fit in with the typical WASP population of America. Ive been to England, and honestly its like being in a less obese America.

TheApricity, Forumbiodiversity, most Americans who post their 23andme results (DNA testing) on these forums cluster with the UK more than anything. Not Germany. And most foreign people on these antropology sites who visit America come to the same conclusion. The majority of the whites look like whites from the British isles and other Anglo dominated nations such as New Zealand, Canada, Australia etc.

What America does have, is a load of Germaphiles. I don't understand for the life of me why more Americans aren't more proud of their British ancestries they invented & contributed a hell of a lot more to the modern world than Germans did in all fields, Be proud.

Third, Surnames:

Don't be silly. The assumption that EVERY single German American family could have Anglicised their names is extremely ridiculous and unfounded. As there are Italians and many other groups who still retain their original surnames. Heh, you could also turn that around and say how do you know that many of those Germans weren't actually German jews? or that many of the existing German surnames were not ethnic Germans. You could even go a bit further and say how do you know many of the people who report German ancestry could have had some non ethnic German speaking ancestor? I knew a guy who up until a few days ago thought his family was primarily German & Irish. Turns out he's mostly of English stock.

Regardless of African Americans having English names. If the so called German Americans were as high as the number claimed they were, you better be damn well you would see German surnames somewhere in the top & yet you do not.

Using the Census is pretty much useless at this point since demographers have already agreed that it was an overcount. Not to mention non ethnics & mixed people are also counted which renders its pretty inacurate. Irish are another group that should not be as high, as many of them AREN'T ethnic. The majority of Irish Americans were actualy Ulster-Scots.......see, the census doesn't project reality well at all. Keep in mind this is a census that also includes Arabs as white & also includes Hispanics as an ethnic group,

Fact is, the British component is the strongest in Whites of the Anglosphere. Most German Americans are not even close to being pure. Many Americans are mixed, but that does not negate the fact that the British component is strongest. Other white Americans will almost ALWAYS have English, Scottish, Welsh, or Irish input. Even the two Dutch presidents had British isles input & even the current Black one has British isles input. Americans just love overestimated non british isles ancestries i blame part of this on making "English" synonymous with "American".
Can you really tell the difference between English and German people by physical appearance? I have been to Holland and Germany and have countless friends from England and not any of them expressed any physical characteristics that were noticeably different than the others.

And yes, German names, language, and culture would be more prevalent in America today if it was not for WW1 and would reflect their greater contribution to American demographics. Every one of my most recent ancestors came from German speaking territories - My dad's paternal line goes back to Germany. My dad's mom's dad was from Germany. My mom's mom's mom's dad was from Austria. Mom's dad's mom's grandparents (all of them) were from Germany.

I personally have seen on Ancestry.com one of my German ancestors on my mom side anglicize their name on the 1920 census. The original name was Zöller and they sometime's spelled their name like this Zoeller. But in the 1920 census is was just Zoller. Not only did they anglicize their name but they also put that both they AND their parents were born in the United States (all were born in Germany)! They ended up dying with their anglicized name and I am not sure if their male descendants carried on the German or Anglicized versions. My great grandmother (mom's side) married a man with an English name, so she didn't have to worry about the very real discrimination that occurred during and following WW1.

My father also has a slightly anglicized German name.

I thought about posting the original name and the current surname, but figured that was too personal.

You just can't go by personal appearances when judging if someone comes from England or Germany. Those groups are just too similar in appearance to do so. And in America, you can't go by last names either because so many German and German descended people Anglicized their names so much. I have my mother's English last name, but my ancestry is mostly German. Which ethnic profile do I match? (my profile pic is open for all to see).

Last edited by CravingMountains; 07-06-2012 at 03:09 PM..
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