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Old 07-20-2010, 09:25 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,124,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingwriter View Post
Upper Midwest is based on culture. The southern half of Wisconsin, Lower Michigan and Chicago are culturally different than MSP and Minnesota. Different accents, ethnic makeup, city structure, social attitudes. Those areas are "Central Midwest" and are more in line with eastern Iowa, northern Indiana and Ohio, and even Western New York. They aren't Upper Midwest in the cultural sense, while the Dakotas (even the western halves of the Dakotas) ARE culturally Upper Midwestern. Also, lower Michigan, southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois aren't really "Upper" as in northern. They are in the south-central part of the Midwest. For example, Niles, Michigan is closer to Nashville, Tennessee than it is to Marquette, MI (in the same state!) or Minneapolis. Niles, on the southern border of Michigan, is also at the same latitude as Crescent City, California.

Illinois is NOT an Upper Midwest state. There are parts of IL that are in the Deep South. Not just the South, but the DEEP SOUTH. The Mississippi Delta Deep South. Hardly Upper Midwest.
I was thinking one of the differences in Middle and Upper Midwest is the historical level of manufacturing as well. Another difference is the Upper Midwest had a lot of its industry based on resource extraction.

In terms of far Southern Illinois. Also have to remember that the Deep South has a strong geographical aspect to it based on the coastal plain which in turn related to types of agriculture which ties into other factors. The coastal plain goes up the Mississippi River to around Cairo, Illinois. The area in that lowlands are very different from places North, East, and West but not as much South along the river.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingwriter View Post
You can't tell me Cairo, Illinois is not the Deep South.

Cairo, Illinois - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never said all of Illinois is the Deep South, only EXTREME southern Illinois. Chicago isn't southern.
Yes, I understood what you meant, and maybe I wasn't very clear in my response.

Still though, I don't think many people are going to agree that any part of Illinois (southern sections or not) is in the "Deep South".
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:45 AM
 
Location: MINNESOTA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
"Midwestern " is also "northern"....The North consists of both the Northeast and the Midwest....period.
You're from VT so it's all good.

But, that still doesn't mean that Minnesota isn't the northermost state (out of real states, not territories that became states in 1950 and arent' even connected to the USA by land)
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingwriter View Post
Illinois is NOT an Upper Midwest state. There are parts of IL that are in the Deep South. Not just the South, but the DEEP SOUTH. The Mississippi Delta Deep South. Hardly Upper Midwest.
Just had to comment for a second on this since it caught my eye. Been through the area multiple times driving from NOLA and Mississippi up to Chicago and have never for a second thought or met anyone from the area who said anything even in far southern Illinois is the DEEP SOUTH.

I certainly see southern qualities, but it's nowhere near the deep south.



The easiest way to divide this up is to say anything along and north of I-80 is Upper Midwest and everything below that line to areas just north of Springfield Missouri and over to Cape Girardeau - Evansville - Cincinnati are the lower Midwest. When you get into those cities you're beginning to get more southern than midwestern.

Then you get more into southern, and finally the deep south into Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama.

That's certainly what I've always felt and heard growing up right in that upper/lower transition zone. To basically say that Minnesota and some of Wisconsin is all that's in the upper Midwest seems extremaly Minnesota centric.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,658,082 times
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Iowa Native,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
The easiest way to divide this up is to say anything along and north of I-80 is Upper Midwest and everything below that line to areas just north of Springfield Missouri and over to Cape Girardeau - Evansville - Cincinnati are the lower Midwest. When you get into those cities you're beginning to get more southern than midwestern.
1-80 isn't even much of a cultural dividing line in the South Suburbs of Chicago though..

Maybe this is accurate in some part of the region but on a personal level, I firmly disagree with this assessment. I lived south of 1-80 my whole life. Not only am I no less "South Side" than someone from Markham, I am definitely no less "Upper Midwestern" than someone from the city of Chicago.

Last edited by urza216; 07-20-2010 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,990 posts, read 11,599,440 times
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The 44th parallel is better than I-80 for a Upper Midwest/Lower Midwest border.

Also, extreme southern IL grows cotton, rice and other Southern crops. It's part of the Mississippi Delta. It's only 2 hours from Memphis. How is that the Midwest?
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,816,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingwriter View Post
The 44th parallel is better than I-80 for a Upper Midwest/Lower Midwest border.

Also, extreme southern IL grows cotton, rice and other Southern crops. It's part of the Mississippi Delta. It's only 2 hours from Memphis. How is that the Midwest?
So does the Bootheel of Mo, its really Southern there. Which makes sense, since only the river separates the 2 states, oh, and lets not forget that the westernmost tip of Ky joins the party at the confluence.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Lower East Side, Milwaukee, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
I was thinking one of the differences in Middle and Upper Midwest is the historical level of manufacturing as well. Another difference is the Upper Midwest had a lot of its industry based on resource extraction.
What are you talking about?

What's this "Middle Midwest" you speak of?

Historically, the economy of the Upper Midwest was centered around manufacturing (the Rust Belt), while the economy of the Lower Midwest was centered around agriculture (the Grain Belt).

MN lies at the intersection of these 2 regions. MSP is where the farmers sent their grain to be milled, that's why there are so many agribusiness headquarters there. Duluth is really a classic Rust belt city, providing ore to the numerous steel mills and foundries that once dotted the Great Lakes region.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Lower East Side, Milwaukee, WI
2,945 posts, read 4,165,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cann View Post
You're from VT so it's all good.

But, that still doesn't mean that Minnesota isn't the northermost state (out of real states, not territories that became states in 1950 and arent' even connected to the USA by land)
That's only because of a tiny little part of MN near Lake of the Woods, otherwise MN would be level with ND, MT, ID, and WA.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:08 PM
 
11,200 posts, read 22,445,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
Iowa Native,



1-80 isn't even much of a cultural dividing line in the South Suburbs of Chicago though..

Maybe this is accurate in some part of the region but on a personal level, I firmly disagree with this assessment. I lived south of 1-80 my whole life. Not only am I no less "South Side" than someone from Markham, I am definitely no less "Upper Midwestern" than someone from the city of Chicago.
I was speaking more in general terms, and in areas to the west of Chicago towards Iowa.

I-80 runs through the southern half of the Chicagoland area. Of course Chicagoland is going to feel the same throughout the metro area - upper Midwestern.

If you move out west though where there aren't any natural breakers, I was saying how once you get down south of I-80 things start feeling a little more lower midwest than upper midwest. Politics, climate, etc. It's not like a line in the sand, just a gradual transition zone. I grew up 1,000 feet away from I-80 in Iowa City. The city was south of I-80, but we were clearly upper midwestern as far as how we viewed ourselves. Once you go 30-50 miles south of I-80 though, you started shifting regionally.

In Illinois I would almost say you have to go a little further south towards ISU and UofI before you start getting away from the pull of northern Illinois.
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