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Old 07-20-2010, 02:53 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,119,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjacobeclark View Post
What are you talking about?

What's this "Middle Midwest" you speak of?

Historically, the economy of the Upper Midwest was centered around manufacturing (the Rust Belt), while the economy of the Lower Midwest was centered around agriculture (the Grain Belt).

MN lies at the intersection of these 2 regions. MSP is where the farmers sent their grain to be milled, that's why there are so many agribusiness headquarters there. Duluth is really a classic Rust belt city, providing ore to the numerous steel mills and foundries that once dotted the Great Lakes region.
I am picturing the Middle Midwest as the manufacturing center and Rust Belt. The Upper Midwest is places that relied on resource extraction to supply the factories which does tie them economically just at a different point in production. (Duluth is a good example along with the UP of Michigan with copper) Also differences are population density and land use with the further North you go the more forested land there is. All of this really only applies to areas near or East of the Mississippi since things change a bit further West.

Duluth has the Rust Belt characteristics due to being being economically linked as a source area for manufacturing. (Similar as to how West Virginia is linked to the Rust Belt as a support area)
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:57 PM
 
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Are Peoria and Springfield more oriented to Chicago, or St. Louis?
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Old 07-20-2010, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Are Peoria and Springfield more oriented to Chicago, or St. Louis?
Springfield is about a 50/50 split (meaning the residents of the MSA, not the politicians). Peoria may be more oriented to Chicago rather than St. Louis, but Peoria is also a bit less influenced by the two large metro areas and is a bit more insular.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
Springfield is about a 50/50 split (meaning the residents of the MSA, not the politicians). Peoria may be more oriented to Chicago rather than St. Louis, but Peoria is also a bit less influenced by the two large metro areas and is a bit more insular.
I wonder if with Peoria it has to do with not being along I-55 that makes it more insular?
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Fargo, ND
1,034 posts, read 1,094,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjacobeclark View Post
Why? Can somebody from MN please explain why Lower Michigan and Milwaukee aren't considered Upper Midwest? MI and WI are still farther north than all but 7 states (ME, MN, ND, MT, ID, WA, AK).

MI shares borders with Canada and OH. MN shares borders with Canada and the Dakotas. Meanwhile, WI shares borders with MI, MN, IA, and IL, all Upper Midwest states. Hence, making us the center of the Upper Midwest.

The culture of the Dakotas is nothing like the culture found in Upper Midwest cities like Des Moines, Madison, and Grand Rapids. Just because the Dakotas don't seem so alien to people in MN doesn't make them Upper Midwest, if anything, it just further demonstrates that you guys aren't at the center of the region.
Stop using state borders to define a region. Half or more of the Dakotas are western/great plains. The other half is midwestern. I live in Fargo and the city is extremely midwestern and a lot like parts of MN, WI, eastern SD, eastern NE, and IA.

The area is politically moderate while the western half is much more conservative. Really eastern ND is very in tune with Minnesota, the Twin Cities are a very significant area of influence.

I may be wrong on this but I believe the Star Tribune is who created the whole concept of Upper Midwest, so it shouldn't be a shock that the Twin Cities is the center.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Fargo, ND
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjacobeclark View Post
How many times do I have to keep saying this? Due to the fact that MN borders the Dakotas, that makes you guys the oddballs, not WI and MI. WI and MI are pretty uniform in their culture, along with the E/SE part of MN. However, once you get west of St. Cloud you start moving towards the Great Plains and the Fargo accent gets stronger. People in the western half of the Dakotas don't have the Fargo accent, they talk like cowboys and Indians because, in all likelihood, they are cowboys and Indians.

You truly are clueless. My cousin who has lived her entire life in Williston ND(the extreme western edge of the state) has the most "Fargo" accent that I have ever heard. The accent does not get stronger in any direction, it is stronger in smaller more isolated areas.

Honestly northwest of St. Cloud all the way to Fargo there are a ton of lakes and some areas with forests. Which is about as far from the great plains as you can get. You want to know when the Great Plains really starts? It is probably around Jamestown in North Dakota.

You would probably hear a lot of accents in western ND because it is booming thanks to energy. Which further proves my point that you have to throw out meaningless state borders when defining a region. Western ND economically is very different from eastern ND economically.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:34 AM
 
11,179 posts, read 22,397,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FargoBison View Post
Stop using state borders to define a region. Half or more of the Dakotas are western/great plains. The other half is midwestern. I live in Fargo and the city is extremely midwestern and a lot like parts of MN, WI, eastern SD, eastern NE, and IA.

The area is politically moderate while the western half is much more conservative. Really eastern ND is very in tune with Minnesota, the Twin Cities are a very significant area of influence.

I may be wrong on this but I believe the Star Tribune is who created the whole concept of Upper Midwest, so it shouldn't be a shock that the Twin Cities is the center.
I agree. I would actually say roughly thing east of the Missouri River through the Dakotas, north of and along I-80 as it moves east, the Chicagoland area and then swinging up in an arch through Michigan are Upper Midwest.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
"Midwestern " is also "northern"....The North consists of both the Northeast and the Midwest....period.
What about the Pacific NW? Any farther North and you are in Canada.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:14 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,061,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FargoBison View Post
You truly are clueless. My cousin who has lived her entire life in Williston ND(the extreme western edge of the state) has the most "Fargo" accent that I have ever heard. The accent does not get stronger in any direction, it is stronger in smaller more isolated areas.

Honestly northwest of St. Cloud all the way to Fargo there are a ton of lakes and some areas with forests. Which is about as far from the great plains as you can get. You want to know when the Great Plains really starts? It is probably around Jamestown in North Dakota.

You would probably hear a lot of accents in western ND because it is booming thanks to energy. Which further proves my point that you have to throw out meaningless state borders when defining a region. Western ND economically is very different from eastern ND economically.
Yes. Neither Dakota has a large metro, so the Western parts of those states are Denver-oriented and the eastern parts are Minneapolis oriented.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:42 PM
 
Location: MINNESOTA
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I know somebody from Williston, ND that has lived here for about 6 years. A new guy to work started and he is from Grand Forks, ND. She constanly turns to me and says "The new guy is such a North Dakota boy, I love it!".

350 miles from each other. One on the west, one on the east and she can still notice it enough to be able to call him a 'North Dakota Boy'.

Same goes for Minnesota. Minnesotan's are big on state pride. We love Minnesota. Minnesotans are unique people. It's hard to explain without living here or have lived here or without knowing people that live here. People from Roseau still have that 'Minnesota thing' that a kid from Austin.
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