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Old 07-14-2010, 05:26 PM
 
Location: IN
20,846 posts, read 35,932,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Nevada strikes me as somewhat on the fiscally-conservative/socially liberal side. Reason Magazine placed Las Vegas number 1 on their "free" list.

What's the Matter With Chicago? - Reason Magazine

The Tax Foundation puts Nevada and New Mexico in the ten least taxed states. I think New Mexico is also at least relatively socially liberal.

The Tax Foundation - America Celebrates Tax Freedom Day

The following ranks the people of states by fiscal and social views. Coloradans look to be about the most fiscally conservative to be a bit socially liberal. Others in that quadrant are (perhaps surprisingly) Minnesota, Virginia, and Wisconsin.

Ranking states by the liberalism/conservatism of their voters - Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

Going by what I've heard on my own, combined with this, I'd go Colorado and Nevada along with maybe some suburbs in Southern California. New Hampshire is reportedly moving away from that, but I think some of their counties still fit.
NH has a strong fiscally conservative tradition that is generally related to localized spending. When property taxes account for the vast bulk of general revenue everyone knows when taxation goes up. Wealthy towns have high valuations in property so the town coffers collect a ton of money via property taxes. Lower income towns have low property valuations, less property tax revenue coming in, and have a much higher equalized rate of property taxation. The small towns in many areas of rural NH are the fiscal conservative bedrock as well as some towns bordering MA.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
128 posts, read 263,471 times
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I would guess that the number of these places is few and dwindling. Perhaps 20 or 30 years ago before the GOP became the "conservative party" and before the Democratic Party became the "liberal party," there were proabably a lot of places that could be considered socially liberal (for the times) and fiscally conservative or economically liberal and socially conservative. But now that the parties have become more ideologically pure I think the people in these areas have drifted along with their parties. What I mean by that is that, for example, Mississippi used to be very socially conservative but pretty economically liberal, but now that it has become strongly Republican the people have accepted more of the economic conservative perspective. I'd imagine the opposite is true in some other places.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,233,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanburen81 View Post
I would guess that the number of these places is few and dwindling. Perhaps 20 or 30 years ago before the GOP became the "conservative party" and before the Democratic Party became the "liberal party," there were proabably a lot of places that could be considered socially liberal (for the times) and fiscally conservative or economically liberal and socially conservative. But now that the parties have become more ideologically pure I think the people in these areas have drifted along with their parties. What I mean by that is that, for example, Mississippi used to be very socially conservative but pretty economically liberal, but now that it has become strongly Republican the people have accepted more of the economic conservative perspective. I'd imagine the opposite is true in some other places.
Good point but there are many socially conservative\ fiscally liberal Democrats in California. The people who voted against gay marriage but routinely elect the most far left representatives. Latino\ Afro-Americans fit this classification.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:57 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,116,144 times
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Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Good point but there are many socially conservative\ fiscally liberal Democrats in California. The people who voted against gay marriage but routinely elect the most far left representatives. Latino\ Afro-Americans fit this classification.
This tends to be most common among minority groups. I do not like the idea that if you are one way on issue X, you have to be the same way on issue Y even if they have nothing to do with each other.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,233,887 times
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Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
This tends to be most common among minority groups. I do not like the idea that if you are one way on issue X, you have to be the same way on issue Y even if they have nothing to do with each other.
The Democrats have faithful coalitions that favor big government. Catholics teach socialism but are rabidly anti-gay. Its a fascinating fraction that also includes mormons\ black baptist\ evangelicals. The far left embraces the religious right!
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:26 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Catholics don't actually teach socialism and there are several documents by the Church that are strongly against socialism.

The problem is we use "socialism" in such a catch-all/catch-can way that I suppose you could say they teach socialism in so much as Catholicism is traditionally skeptical of Capitalism. Still it isn't really the same thing though. Teddy Roosevelt and Benjamin Disraeli were critical of many aspects of Capitalist society, but you have to be in the Glenn-Beck fringe of life to deem them socialist.

Socialism is a belief that the state should own/nationalize the major industries and works toward equal distribution of wealth. The Catholic Church has always been wary of a centralized secular-state having too much power and tended to believe certain disparities of wealth are natural. They/we just also traditionally believe in protection of workers, ameliorating poverty, avoiding greed, promoting charity, and favoring solidarity among classes.

Granted in American-speak this might sound like "blah-blah-blah, basically socialism" but it's not in any normal meaning of the world. Catholicism's views on economics and social justice are mostly unrelated to US political norms as most Catholics, particularly most church-attending Catholics, do not live in the US.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:42 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 13,172,633 times
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Yep, thought of Houston immediately. Houston Picks Conservative Annise Parker as Mayor, First Lesbian to Head a Major American City - Los Angeles Times
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,233,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Catholics don't actually teach socialism and there are several documents by the Church that are strongly against socialism.

The problem is we use "socialism" in such a catch-all/catch-can way that I suppose you could say they teach socialism in so much as Catholicism is traditionally skeptical of Capitalism. Still it isn't really the same thing though. Teddy Roosevelt and Benjamin Disraeli were critical of many aspects of Capitalist society, but you have to be in the Glenn-Beck fringe of life to deem them socialist.

Socialism is a belief that the state should own/nationalize the major industries and works toward equal distribution of wealth. The Catholic Church has always been wary of a centralized secular-state having too much power and tended to believe certain disparities of wealth are natural. They/we just also traditionally believe in protection of workers, ameliorating poverty, avoiding greed, promoting charity, and favoring solidarity among classes.

Granted in American-speak this might sound like "blah-blah-blah, basically socialism" but it's not in any normal meaning of the world. Catholicism's views on economics and social justice are mostly unrelated to US political norms as most Catholics, particularly most church-attending Catholics, do not live in the US.
Catholic theology clearly teaches individual responsibility for the care of others; it's an ideal required for sainthood. Catholics are the majority in counties that are socialistic and that is not an accident. Liberation theology as practiced by Chavez\ Venezuela & Lula\ Brazil are expressions of Catholic principles. Europe is essentially socialist even in Scandinavia which is Lutheran. Past history with some socialistic and communistic governments have not been friendly to the Catholic church. Even Nazi's used the term socialist though in a different way.

Sunday homilies are pure socialism and American bishops have made clear the need for universal health care so long as abortions are not funded. I am Catholic.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:41 PM
 
7,385 posts, read 13,224,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Without knowing all the details, I would guess that Oregon and Washington might qualify ...
Absolutely not.

While they do have cities and towns that are socially lib/fiscally con; as a state, it doesn't work that way. You have the populous cities/counties dictating the terms for the rest of the state and that turns it to be more socially liberal/fiscally liberal.

In WA, every time there's an election, Eastern WA and SW Wa will have signs up saying: "Don't let Seattle steal this election!!" I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of OR has something like that for Portland. There will be lots of complaints about how we're going down the route of becoming California v. 2.

Otherwise, both are beautiful states with so much to offer.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,955,873 times
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I am Catholic too and I do not agree. More importantly I can source that disagreement.

Yes Latin American Liberation Theology is socialist, but Liberation Theology is only one thread and largely outside the mainstream. There are Catholic nations in Europe, like Ireland, that are clearly not socialist. Furthermore

"In letters addressed to the people of Italy We have more than once warned those on whom falls the serious responsibility of power of this natural and necessary connection between religious decadence and the development of the spirit of revolution and disorder. We have also drawn attention to the inevitable progress of socialism and anarchy and to the endless evil to which they expose the nation." Spesse Volte, Pope Leo XIII

"The Church has condemned the various forms of Marxist Socialism; and she condemns them again today, because it is her permanent right and duty to safeguard men from fallacious arguments and subversive influence that jeopardize their eternal salvation." Evangelii Praecones, Pope Pius II

"Some Christians are today attracted by socialist currents and their various developments. They try to recognize therein a certain number of aspirations which they carry within themselves in the name of their faith. They feel that they are part of that historical current and wish to play a part within it. Now this historical current takes on, under the same name, different forms according to different continents and cultures, even if it drew its inspiration, and still does in many cases, from ideologies incompatible with faith. Careful judgment is called for. Too often Christians attracted by socialism tend to idealize it in terms which, apart from anything else, are very general: a will for justice, solidarity and equality. They refuse to recognize the limitations of the historical socialist movements, which remain conditioned by the ideologies from which they originated. Distinctions must be made to guide concrete choices between the various levels of expression of socialism: a generous aspiration and a seeking for a more just society, historical movements with a political organization and aim, and an ideology which claims to give a complete and self-sufficient picture of man. Nevertheless, these distinctions must not lead one to consider such levels as completely separate and independent. The concrete link which, according to circumstances, exists between them must be clearly marked out. This insight will enable Christians to see the degree of commitment possible along these lines, while safeguarding the values, especially those of liberty, responsibility and openness to the spiritual, which guarantee the integral development of man." Octagesima Adveniens, Pope Paul VI iin 1971: This one is more cautious than negative, but I wouldn't call it a total embrace of socialism.
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