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Old 08-18-2010, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Southeast Arizona
3,191 posts, read 4,132,514 times
Reputation: 2104

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDog View Post
If the confederate flag represents states rights, why were the confederate states interested in imposing federal power (Dredd Scott, Fugitive Slave Law) to undermine states rights? What could be a bigger and more disgusting excersize of oppresive federal power than refusing a state's right to recognize the freedom of its own citizens? But that was exactly what the confederate states were in favor of.
I'm getting REALLY tired of this BS arguement being dragged out everytime this issue comes up.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
406 posts, read 1,260,068 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
The U.S. Constitution, not the Confederate Constitution, left it to the states.

That said, people were tired of the federal government telling people what they could do with their property, and slaves were property. They bought them with money, hence property. That is why they decided to place that clause into the Confederate Constitution. I never once said that slavery wasn't an issue the South redressed and rebuked the federal government for, of which led to a disfavor with the federal government. My point is that it was one of many.



If you'll actually read letters and documents of the time, most people didn't consider it evil. The north abolished slavery because it threatened small farmers ability to make a living for themselves. Abraham Lincoln cared little for the slaves. Slavery was occurring at the time in places far and awide. It was accepted by most as a part of commerce.



It's not like they weren't enslaved in their African motherland. Who do you think sold them? Furthermore, their treatment and livelihood was much better in the Americas than on their home continent under such as position.

Personally, I wouldn't own slaves, nor would I want someone hanging around all the time, but times were different. You're viewing the world through the lens of Hollywood-influenced mainstream, modern times values with regard to the issue of slavery.



I don't condone slavery, but I don't view it as this all-oppressive evil, in the same regard as murder. Mistreatment of the slaves is another issue, and with that I agree with you that it is evil. However, for most slaves, they weren't receiving horsewhippings and the like that Hollywood portrays. Most simply played the roles of farmers and maids, ones that were provided food, clothing, and shelter. Many had a strong bond with the slave master's family.

Prostitution violates the body and it corrupts the soul. Drug dealing destroys people's lives. These, in my opinion, are much worse than a form of slavery that isn't violent. On the other hand, a violent slavery can be as bad, or worse than Prostitution and drug dealing.



What evidence do you have to support this?



That's related to an individual, not a state government.



Good.

I just wanna say that I been reading all of this and what about the recorded video of men and woman talking about how there masters treated them. hearing it is sick. how ALOT of them were beat. The masters raped the men's woman, hung the slaves who tried to run away, gave them "Lashes" across the back for misbehaving... come on now. You and I both know that MAJORITY of them were used and abused as "property" would be used. it is because they were viewed as property that they were treated as such. Simply like property. Many didnt try to run out of fear or because they couldnt get a job because they were all taken by the "white man" and they would never hire a "Negro" (property) so they are SOL and they know this so they stay put enduring mistreatment on a daily basis. being treated like nothing. They know that if they speak up they will be beatin, if they try to run away even worse. so what are they to do other then ride it.... wait, i gotta better idea. how about SIT-INS. thats a good way to make a statment, so thats what they did. Sit-in's, Marched, Rallied, Spoke up, Got together; did all they could do to try and make a difference. It all paid off eventually because slavery was officially ended but segregation began. whites where still very angry that they won there freedom so nazi and kkk began slaughtering them, hanging them on crosses on there front laws, catchin there houses on fire, decapitating there families.. all to make a point and put the fear in them. Whites were upset and still thought they were better then blacks (hence the whole property idea) so they had WHITES ONLY, NO BLACKS on just about all places they could have it. and to think they were nice enough to let them go to school. yeah right!! it was because they later got the right to an education, the right to vote, freedom of speach that they were threatened even more, they were told if you vote i will kill you, if you try to get an education you will be a dead nigg**. They didnt like them very much having that power. So there was the great migration of blacks to the north to areas like NY, OH, MI (mostly big cities). They migrated up north in two spurts the second one being even larger then the first to escape it. Whites up north did not like this so something called the "white flight" took place where blacks moved near them and whites moved out!! leaving all black areas today creating higher crime rates. at this time they still didnt have rights such as the "fair houseing act" (which they later recieved). It wasnt until the past 10 years or so that people started to move back down south in large amounts. Also woman did not have rights into late also. (They were considered "property" to there husbands hence love, cherish and OBEY...), notice it is not love, cherish and HONOR. (which is the way it should be). Slaves were treated like **** and soo were woman... hell woman AND blacks still get treated a certain way cuz of there color or sex hence the terms RACIST AND SEXIST which are both just forms of Prejudice, and all that prejudice means is ignorance (same thing), all ignorance means is (not knowing or uneducated). The more we educated the closer we can become as Americans and stop segregating. When we can all love one another rather we are "yankees" (northerners), blacks or woman (minorities)! All men SHOULD be created equal although this is not the case even today and remember EVEN THEN we were all GODS CHILDREN and he loves us all equally and doesnt want one group of us treating another a certain way and he didnt intend on his children to THINK that they OWN another and that they are "property". im pretty sure that upset him. Just because you dont realize or know something is wrong doesnt mean that it's not. Thats what I got to say about "at the time they thought it was right" or any similar comment. Dont get me wrong I love southern culture, the food, the people, the atmosphere, the beauty etc... but people need to let go of slavery, let go of racism, let go of hatred, let go of differences and all become ONE. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL AGAINST THE ENEMY. and that enemy is not eachother. the enemy is Iraq, Afganistan and any other country who threatens the well being of our country. ok. I think i'm done!
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:51 AM
 
1,113 posts, read 1,945,239 times
Reputation: 830
someone should introduce you to the carriage return key on your keyboard.

jeez louise. i bailed out of reading your post because it is a pain in the arse to read.
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
406 posts, read 1,260,068 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SacalaitWhisperer View Post
someone should introduce you to the carriage return key on your keyboard.

jeez louise. i bailed out of reading your post because it is a pain in the arse to read.

My apologies
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:45 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,622,945 times
Reputation: 12537
Another good reason for breaking up your posts into paragraphs is for screen reader users. Screen readers recognize the post as one whole chunk and once the screen reader starts reading it doesn't stop until the very end, with no pauses or breaks.

In other words, it's much easier for blind users to navigate a post that's broken up into multiple paragraphs.

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Old 08-19-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Bellevue, WA
404 posts, read 909,972 times
Reputation: 145
What's better in the South as opposed to the North: overall, it's dirt cheap.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:21 PM
 
1,965 posts, read 5,786,349 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post
I'm getting REALLY tired of this BS arguement being dragged out everytime this issue comes up.
What's BS about it? The Fugitive Slave law is arguably the worst abuse of federal power over state's rights in the history of our country. The states in favor of it- the confederate states. I'd add that these supposed state's rights states are now the biggest recipients of the huge federal wealth transfer from tax paying states (California, New York) to them. In any event, I'm not arguing against state power or the limitation of federal power, I'm merely pointing out that the confederacy was NOT about state's rights.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Southeast Arizona
3,191 posts, read 4,132,514 times
Reputation: 2104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDog View Post
What's BS about it? The Fugitive Slave law is arguably the worst abuse of federal power over state's rights in the history of our country. The states in favor of it- the confederate states. I'd add that these supposed state's rights states are now the biggest recipients of the huge federal wealth transfer from tax paying states (California, New York) to them. In any event, I'm not arguing against state power or the limitation of federal power, I'm merely pointing out that the confederacy was NOT about state's rights.
The Fugitive Slave law as a law that prompted the Federal government to acknowlege property (slave) rights. But when the Southern states became the Confederate States of America no such laws were made like you state. I should also mention that many of those same southern states were also the richest states in the U.S. in 1860, the reason why it is like this today is because of the immediate effects of the Civil War itself.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: where my heart is
5,642 posts, read 7,966,090 times
Reputation: 1661
Why can't these Southern states get over the Civl War? We may as well be fighting over the Brits and the Revolutionary War.

Does the South still want to seceed? The South against the Northeast, MidWest, and Western States. See where it would get you THIS time.
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,263,628 times
Reputation: 2781
Quote:
Originally Posted by TANaples View Post
Why can't these Southern states get over the Civl War? We may as well be fighting over the Brits and the Revolutionary War.

Does the South still want to seceed? The South against the Northeast, MidWest, and Western States. See where it would get you THIS time.
"The South" doesn't do anything...it isn't a thinking being. Apparently you're equating someone's comment (s) with the opinions of all southerners. Is that an intelligent thing to do?

Remembering history is not the same as reliving it...we remember the revolution and the founding of America on July 4th - do you think that celebration means that we can't get over the Revolutionary War? I wonder why other war memorials don't receive this type of inane accusation? I have a keen interest in history...especially U.S. history, yet that doesn't mean that I'm not over the Civil War. I'm not sure who is telling you things like this, but it's rather silly.

Your immature challenge to another contest sounds like YOU'RE the one who can't get over it.
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