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Old 12-08-2011, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,228,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
You also hear southern twangs in the Cincinnati area.
Perhaps that's because people from a bit further south in Kentucky visit there...also, the northern approximation of Southern dialect isn't too far south of Cincinnati, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few southern twangs here and there...you also might be confusing a south midland accent with a southern accent. There are a few common pronunciations, but they are still noticeably different. You hear a twang in the rural areas of the Midwest that extends well into the northern halves of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. Take the pin/pen merger....look up the map and you'll see what i'm talking about.

Last edited by stlouisan; 12-08-2011 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,228,729 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I said they are classic border cities. For a yankee like myself, St. Louis, Wheeling and Cinci exhibit southern traits. Not as many as Louisville or Charleston WV

I've lived in Pittsburgh and DC long enough to know that it also has A FEW southern (albeit appalachian) characteristics.

Seems like a lot of people seem to think that being "southern" is a bad thing.
I don't think being southern is a bad thing. I think your definition of it is. Apart from a difference in latitude, there is little about St. Louis that makes it any more southern than Chicago from a modern perspective. Demographically, industrially, culturally, and linguistically, St. Louis and Cincinnati are far more Midwestern than southern. It seems to me that even a tint of influence from another region all of a sudden makes for a classic border city or borderline case according to your definition. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Louisville shares little in common with these cities other than a similar latitude. Louisville, Charleston, and Richmond are all southern with a slight tint of Midwestern and Northeastern. Baltimore and D.C. are northeastern with slight southern influences, and very much tied to Boston more than to Richmond from a modern standpoint. I also know you tend to have a distaste for St. Louis, so I'm not sure effective how any contradictory evidence I throw at you will change your mind. A classic borderline case is Springfield, Missouri, Cape Girardeau, or Evansville, Indiana. Those cities literally fall right on the boundaries of culture, dialect, and even to an extent weather patterns. I have no clue where I am when I'm in these cities.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:00 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel View Post
Really come down here and tell us that you are from the dirty south yet claim you are from MD VA or KY. you will get laughed at, I promise you..
And those jimbo jim clowns would get get laughed at right back......
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:02 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
You choose to act hypocritically and defiantly, even when you're cornered. Tell me what facts you have provided, other than a line that never actually was meant to represent north and south to begin with...it's not a fact that Maryland is southern...the only basis even the U.S. Census Bureau uses for saying it's the south is a line which never actually represented the boundary between north and south when it was created. I'm gonna tell you it's not southern whenever I see the kind of demographic, cultural, climatological, and linguistical contradictions that make it Maryland is southern not a true fact. So in any event, it is far from a fact that Maryland is southern. The U.S. Census Bureau has grouped both Maryland and Delaware in the south purely due to Maryland and Pennsylvania border, not due to any commonalities it shares with the South. I've dealt with your refusal to accept fact over fiction....you're the one who keeps poking your head back in for more. So if you don't want to hear what I have to say, go express your unfounded and rather ignorant views somewhere else...your true ignorance comes into play when you claim to have the ability to read my mind, which you are about as off as a wild pitch. Your only claims to contradict me are the "fact", according to you, that Maryland is a southern state, and that I have some type of hatred towards Maryland, which I do not. Rather, you likely have some type of hatred for Maryland because you want it to be southern but know it's not, or just enjoy stirring the pot because you have nothing better to do. And since I have relatives living in Maryland, have visited there numerous times, and been to every southern state, it makes my opinion every bit as good as your's, if not better.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Maryland is still a Southern State and there is nothing you can do to change that....

All that yapping is just pure entertainment....
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:04 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Then I guess I'd laugh back at them for their ignorance. With Maryland, you'd be right to laugh at them. As far as Kentucky or Virginia, people from the Deep South seem to think they are the beginning and end of the true south. Virginia was the capital of the Confederacy, it has southern accents, southern culture, southern political views, southern demographics, basically the only two things making Virginia less southern than the deep south are its weather, in the winter only, and even then, those are hardly what I'd call real winters except around Northern Virginia. Northern Virginia...the D.C. suburbs suburbs in particular, are basically the only parts of Virginia which do not embrace all the southern characteristics that the rest of Virginia does. As far as Kentucky, that state may not have fought for the Confederacy, but it became more southern than ever after Confederate veterans took it over at the end of the Civil War. Again, besides winter, and the extreme northern part jutting up into the cincinnati suburbs. that's the only other characteristic Kentucky lacks for being southern. I have been to Mississippi, Georgia, and Alabama, and Kentucky and Virginia remind me much more of those states than they do of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, or Missouri.
And you say you don't HATE Maryland.........
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
A simple fact that some people on this forum choose to ignore. Also Maryland never joined the "Confederate States", it was a "Union State". I guess some people choose to ignore that fact to. What I find the most hilarious is that people on this forum think Baltimore is more of a Southern city than a Northern city. Baltimore has more in common with cities like Philadelphia and New York City than probably any city in the entire South.
Your opinion but does not change the Fact that Baltimore is below the Mason-Dixon which makes it a Southern City......
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Umm...Ohioans WILL tell you that Kentucky is the south...I have family from there. Everybody from the Midwest considers Kentucky Southern. And i have family in Louisiana and South Carolina, so I think I know southern when i see it. Nobody is claiming Ohio and Indiana are southern states, but they have southern influences. There is a lot of difference between Virginia and Maryland, you're kidding right? Baltimore and Washington are very different from Richmond. Maryland is politically liberal...Virginia is ultra-conservative. Religion is another characteristic..Maryland is far more Catholic, while Virginia is heavily southern Baptist outside of NOVA. This is only one characteristic...the problem is, Virginia and Kentucky are at best central, at most southern. In no way are they geographically northern. If you think just looking at a map and guessing that latitudes are what define the south, you'd be dead wrong. Regions from a cultural standpoint pay little attention to state lines or latitudes. Natural boundaries like the Ohio River are what define them. Cincinnati is not a southern city, no...however, it does have some southern influences. 70% of Kentuckians in a recent University of North Carolina survey identified as southern. I don't get why you have such a hard time considering Kentucky or Virginia southern...Kentucky's southernmost point is 100 miles from Mississippi if that. Virginia is a short drive from South Carolina. Virginia today has little in common with Maryland. i know these states like the back of my hand...trust me, Kentucky and Virginia are the Upper South, and the northernmost southern states, along with West Virginia. NOVA, and the upper third of West Virginia are more northern, as well as the northernmost tip of Kentucky in Cincy's suburbs...the rest of these states are unmistakably southern. The South is divisible into subregions: the Upper South, Mid-South, Deep South, and Western South. Just like the Midwest is divisible into the Upper, Central, and Lower portions. And in between these regions lie transition zones stretching around 50-100 miles from north to south, depending on where you are.
Maryland is mostly Democratic because the Majority of Maryland's population is between Baltimore and DC. Just because Maryland is mostly Democratic does not make it a non-Southern State....

Richmond, Norfolk, and Northern Virginia is Heavily Democratic that does not make Virginia a non-Southern State......
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,899,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I don't think being southern is a bad thing. I think your definition of it is. Apart from a difference in latitude, there is little about St. Louis that makes it any more southern than Chicago from a modern perspective. Demographically, industrially, culturally, and linguistically, St. Louis and Cincinnati are far more Midwestern than southern. It seems to me that even a tint of influence from another region all of a sudden makes for a classic border city or borderline case according to your definition. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Louisville shares little in common with these cities other than a similar latitude. Louisville, Charleston, and Richmond are all southern with a slight tint of Midwestern and Northeastern. Baltimore and D.C. are northeastern with slight southern influences, and very much tied to Boston more than to Richmond from a modern standpoint. I also know you tend to have a distaste for St. Louis, so I'm not sure effective how any contradictory evidence I throw at you will change your mind. A classic borderline case is Springfield, Missouri, Cape Girardeau, or Evansville, Indiana. Those cities literally fall right on the boundaries of culture, dialect, and even to an extent weather patterns. I have no clue where I am when I'm in these cities.
Agreed 100%. Definitely one of the interesting things about growing up in the Cape Girardeau area was both midwestern and southern culture mixed together. For many places that you go in Cape County you never know what dialects your going to hear, especially in either Cape Girardeau city or Jackson. The weather pattern statement is pretty accurate too. Average winters in the Cape area bring about 1 foot of annual snowfall, which I've heard used as boundary of sorts between northern and southern climate.

As to northernmost southern city or southernmost northern city.....hmmmmmm
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:16 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
This is just not true. St. Louis exhibits very little southern characteristics. Cincinnati to a greater extent does, but not still nearly enough to be called a border city. Wheeling is not southern at all...neither is Pittsburgh. Richmond is definitively Southern. Washington and Baltimore are basically Northeastern. Louisville is definitively Southern. It's very easy to tell which respective regions these cities go with. Pittsburgh is tough to identify as Midwestern or Northeastern, but it has NEVER exhibited any southern characteristics.
St. Louis is definitely not Southern because it is part of the Mid-West but Baltimore/DC is in the South despite your defiant resistance to the reality that they are below the Mason-Dixon.........
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:18 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I said they are classic border cities. For a yankee like myself, St. Louis, Wheeling and Cinci exhibit southern traits. Not as many as Louisville or Charleston WV

I've lived in Pittsburgh and DC long enough to know that it also has A FEW southern (albeit appalachian) characteristics.

Seems like a lot of people seem to think that being "southern" is a bad thing.
Or some of the southerners don't want to be affiliated with some of the states that are part of the south....
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