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Springfield, MO is one of the northernmost cities in the south. However, some people "claim" that it is more similar to the midwest. It might even have a cooler climate than urban parts of KC. Evansville, IN also seems to be on the borderline between the north and the south. Kansas City is located at the edge of the plains, midwest, and south.
I see nothing southern about KC or STL or Cincy. All sources and most residents of these cities consider them Midwestern. Louisvillians generally consider themselves Southern. i think the four cities I just mentioned exhibit very obviously and clearly which regions they belong in. I say the debate needs to be taken away from these cities. West Virginia and Maryland and Northern Virginia are where the real ambiguities are to me anyway.
In what way? I have been to Evansville, where some people speak with a southern accent, but Indiana is still a northern state.
The city is one thing, but to me, the smaller towns and villages in southern Indiana are more like the South (esp. Kentucky and Tennessee). I'm talking about places like Jasper, Salem, Bedford, and smaller. Even Bloomington, Indiana, when the students are gone for the summer, seems more like an outpost of the South.
The situation is similar in southern Ohio, though the towns and villages also tend to have an Appalachian layer, as well. Over the past century or so, many people from the mountains of West Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee migrated to mountain areas of Ohio, as well as flatter parts of Ohio and Indiana. I suspect some of the communities that these migrants founded or joined still maintain a great degree of Southern/Appalachian culture.
In fact, though Columbus, Ohio is generally a midwestern city, parts (entire neigborhoods and small suburbs) of the southern section of the metro are inhabited by closely-knit people of Appalachian descent. When I taught at OSU, two students of mine revealed to me that they were from such areas (one was from Franklinton, the other was from the Appalachian neighborhood in southside Columbus), and that they were in college in order to get a social work degree, so they could go back to their neighborhoods and help fight the poverty, alcoholism, and other ills. This helped me realize just how fluid culture can be. Indiana and Ohio may be northern states, but when people move around and take their culture with them, the boundaries don't matter so much.
By the way, on the thread regarding a poll on Louisville ("southern or midwestern?"), LouisvilleSlugger has posted some excellent maps illustrating data on slaveholding areas, Baptist affiliation, dialect zones, and other features that may help approach the northern/southern divide:
I see nothing southern about KC or STL or Cincy. All sources and most residents of these cities consider them Midwestern. Louisvillians generally consider themselves Southern. i think the four cities I just mentioned exhibit very obviously and clearly which regions they belong in. I say the debate needs to be taken away from these cities. West Virginia and Maryland and Northern Virginia are where the real ambiguities are to me anyway.
I said that KC was at the EDGE of the Midwest region, the Central Plains region, and the Upper South. If you travel a couple of counties south of KC such as Bates County Missouri or Linn County Kansas their is much more of a southern influence especially when it comes to speech patterns. In fact, I believe Linn County predominantely calls carbonated beverages "coke."
I said that KC was at the EDGE of the Midwest region, the Central Plains region, and the Upper South. If you travel a couple of counties south of KC such as Bates County Missouri or Linn County Kansas their is much more of a southern influence especially when it comes to speech patterns. In fact, I believe Linn County predominantely calls carbonated beverages "coke."
Ok. Didn't know that's what you meant. In that case no arguments.
Hey, I'm from Baltimore MD, born and raised. Baltimore is definately the northernmost southern city. Plus allow me to remind you that MD is a southern state and EVERYTHING that makes the rest of the southern states what they are are characteristics familiar to us also. I've been to college and compared our speech with other southern dialects. If you actually KNOW ANYTHING about Baltimore, you'll know we have southern roots and also ALOT of people wear golds. I mean, everywhere you go.. gold teeth, and this is strong symbolism of southern-hood. This aint a new thing either. Baltimore is very southern in culture with northern influence. I'm reminded by REAL northerners everyday.
Last edited by GetatMD; 07-04-2007 at 03:40 PM..
Reason: mess up
Plus... Missouri IS a southern state and always was. Within the past few years they went and slapped this midwestern tag on it.. open your eyes people, educate youself before you speak. St. Louis is a southern city, they wear golds and talk country just like Baltimore. When you live in a border state, you WILL have northern influences.. accept it.
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