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Old 07-04-2007, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Central Coast, CA
115 posts, read 444,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetatMD View Post
Plus... Missouri IS a southern state and always was. Within the past few years they went and slapped this midwestern tag on it.. open your eyes people, educate youself before you speak. St. Louis is a southern city, they wear golds and talk country just like Baltimore. When you live in a border state, you WILL have northern influences.. accept it.
I couldn't disagree more. Parts of Missouri are southern (especially bootheel). But I have a hard time agree that you could go into towns like Columbia, Kansas City, St. Joseph, etc...forever and call them southern cities with a straight face. I'd call Kansas City and St. Joe western style towns before southern. Plus I have no idea what you're talking about with the golds and country talk. St. Louis actually has their own phonetic quirks that are only used by those in the area.
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,903 posts, read 7,282,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southlander View Post
Who cares?
Northerners care, because there are Columbustuckys, Indianapolises, St Louises, Louisvilles, Cincinnatis, and Baltimores in our midst!

... and biggest threat of them all: Washington DC, the most wannabe Northerner of all Southern cities.
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Old 07-04-2007, 08:43 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,905,824 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetatMD View Post
Plus... Missouri IS a southern state and always was. Within the past few years they went and slapped this midwestern tag on it.. open your eyes people, educate youself before you speak. St. Louis is a southern city, they wear golds and talk country just like Baltimore. When you live in a border state, you WILL have northern influences.. accept it.
LOL!!! Missouri has been considered Midwestern for at least 100 years by the U.S. Census bureau. It may have some Southern influences, but it is not a Southern state. You obviously have never been to St. Louis and if you have you must have not spent much time there. I've lived here for over 20 years. You need to open your eyes. St. Louis was NEVER a Southern city, it was and always has been different from the rest of Missouri, and even though Missouri was once considered Southern, which I don't think it ever truly was...it then became much less Southern and more Midwestern after the Civil War Modern Missouri and Maryland are not Southern states and should not be included in the South since they overwhelmingly supported the Union and Missouri at least voted overwhelmingly against secession. Need I remind that what a border state was during the Civil War in general has no relevance to what it was after the Civil War? Plain and simple. Also, St. Louisans do NOT talk country, who told you that? St. Louis is Midwestern to its very core. We are as different from Louisville as you can get, and Baltimore by all means today is much more of a Northern city.
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Old 07-04-2007, 08:56 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,905,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvedderbest View Post
I couldn't disagree more. Parts of Missouri are southern (especially bootheel). But I have a hard time agree that you could go into towns like Columbia, Kansas City, St. Joseph, etc...forever and call them southern cities with a straight face. I'd call Kansas City and St. Joe western style towns before southern. Plus I have no idea what you're talking about with the golds and country talk. St. Louis actually has their own phonetic quirks that are only used by those in the area.
Kansas City and St. Joe are Midwestern, as is Columbia, Jefferson City, and St. Louis and basically all of the Northern half of Missouri. I just came back from visiting Springfield and Joplin. Southern Missouri may have some Southern influences, but it is not truly Dixie except for Southeast Missouri and the bootheel which should essential be considered a part of Northeastern Arkansas or Southwestern Kentucky and Northwestern Tennessee. other than that, Missouri actually struck me as being a far more Midwestern state than a Southern one. Even around Joplin and Springfield I don't agree that it's truly a part of Dixie. IF you don't consider its geographical location and climate, Louisville and most of Kentucky for that matter are far more Southern than Joplin and Springfield. You really get a whole bunch of things jumbled together with Southern Missouri..most of Southern Missouri is a blend of Midwest, Ozark, Southwest, and the South. Southeast Missouri and the bootheel are the only parts of Missouri which are distinctly Dixie and nothing else.

Last edited by ajf131; 07-04-2007 at 09:07 PM..
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:05 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,905,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M TYPE X View Post
Northerners care, because there are Columbustuckys, Indianapolises, St Louises, Louisvilles, Cincinnatis, and Baltimores in our midst!

... and biggest threat of them all: Washington DC, the most wannabe Northerner of all Southern cities.
....Columbus, Indianapolis, St. Louis, and Cincy may have a bit of Southern influence, but they are definitely Midwestern. Louisville is the outlier here and is more complicated than these others. But I'd say it is definitely the winner for the Northernmost Southern city. Columbus, Indy,St. Louis and Cincy are the Southernmost Northern cities. Now what about Evansville, Indiana? I've never known what to call that city given it's situated at the Indiana/Kentucky border. When you are in evansville, northerners must beware for complications Washington, D.C. and Baltimore I'm not going to comment on except to say that they certainly felt more Northeastern to me and they definitely behave that way, which is not necessarily a good thing, dare I say
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:18 PM
 
Location: IN
20,849 posts, read 35,958,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
Kansas City and St. Joe are Midwestern, as is Columbia, Jefferson City, and St. Louis and basically all of the Northern half of Missouri. I just came back from visiting Springfield and Joplin. Southern Missouri may have some Southern influences, but it is not truly Dixie except for Southeast Missouri and the bootheel which should essential be considered a part of Northeastern Arkansas or Southwestern Kentucky and Northwestern Tennessee. other than that, Missouri actually struck me as being a far more Midwestern state than a Southern one. Even around Joplin and Springfield I don't agree that it's truly a part of Dixie. IF you don't consider its geographical location and climate, Louisville and most of Kentucky for that matter are far more Southern than Joplin and Springfield. You really get a whole bunch of things jumbled together with Southern Missouri..most of Southern Missouri is a blend of Midwest, Ozark, Southwest, and the South. Southeast Missouri and the bootheel are the only parts of Missouri which are distinctly Dixie and nothing else.
I do not think that Springfield or Joplin should be considered part of the Midwest core at all. For the most part, I would say these towns are more influenced by the Ozark culture with some STRONG southern influences. The architecture is quite strange there and almost feels more Midwestern than the architecture in Kansas City. In terms of climate Springfield may be cooler overall than Joplin because it sits on the Ozark plateau. Winter temperatures can actually get colder in Springfield than urban areas of Kansas City because of the urban heat island effect that KC experiences. I think that Joplin has more people who have southern accents than Springfield but it is hard to tell. We have a new poster on the Missouri board that has described Joplin as a town with strong southern influences as well as culture.
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
The situation is similar in southern Ohio, though the towns and villages also tend to have an Appalachian layer, as well. Over the past century or so, many people from the mountains of West Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee migrated to mountain areas of Ohio, as well as flatter parts of Ohio and Indiana. I suspect some of the communities that these migrants founded or joined still maintain a great degree of Southern/Appalachian culture.

Appalachian does not equate with southern. SW Pennsylvania is considered part of Appalachia. It is not southern. In re: Evansville, IN, it is northern. It may be one of the southernmost northern cities, but it is in a northern state. Indiana was not a slave state.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:09 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,905,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plains10 View Post
I do not think that Springfield or Joplin should be considered part of the Midwest core at all. For the most part, I would say these towns are more influenced by the Ozark culture with some STRONG southern influences. The architecture is quite strange there and almost feels more Midwestern than the architecture in Kansas City. In terms of climate Springfield may be cooler overall than Joplin because it sits on the Ozark plateau. Winter temperatures can actually get colder in Springfield than urban areas of Kansas City because of the urban heat island effect that KC experiences. I think that Joplin has more people who have southern accents than Springfield but it is hard to tell. We have a new poster on the Missouri board that has described Joplin as a town with strong southern influences as well as culture.
Plains, I NEVER SAID THEY WERE MIDWESTERN AND BELONG IN THE MIDWEST CORE OK?!!! There is a difference between having A FEW Midwestern influences and actually being a part of it. They have strong Southern influences I agree, I'm not denying that. But they are not NEARLY as Dixie as Sikeston, Missouri, or the bootheel. Ask anyone who lives down there, if they've been to Southeast Missouri, i'm sure they will tell you how different it looks and feels from southwest Missouri. Southwest Missouri honestly feels like a hodgepodge of Midwest, Great Plains, Ozark, and South, to me when I was in these cities it seemed like I was on the verge of entering Dixie, meaning the Southern influences and feel were getting strong, but the appearance, speech patterns, and feel to me were just not quite there yet....i did not really hear any Southern speech patterns while I was down there... Ozark culture has strong Southern influences but it is also a thing of its own. We may not come to an agreement about Southwest Missouri Plains, i will agree that it's Southern influences are strong but I just don't think you can call cities that are located near the Missouri-Oklahoma-Kansas-Arkansas border TRULY Dixie places. Springfield and Joplin as I have stated before feel like a meeting of the Midwest, Ozark region, Great Plains, and Mid-South, and if not the Midwest which is more likely than not the case, DEFINITELY the latter three. To my surprise, much of the drive along I-44 once you were past the Mississippi River bluffs on I-44 and then Rolla, where the Ozark foothills begin, you actually encountered a scene similar to the Midwest...green acreage of farms, cornfields, grain silos, farms...gentle rolling hills blended in with the OZark foothills.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:47 PM
 
Location: IN
20,849 posts, read 35,958,846 times
Reputation: 13297
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
Plains, I NEVER SAID THEY WERE MIDWESTERN AND BELONG IN THE MIDWEST CORE OK?!!! There is a difference between having A FEW Midwestern influences and actually being a part of it. They have strong Southern influences I agree, I'm not denying that. But they are not NEARLY as Dixie as Sikeston, Missouri, or the bootheel. Ask anyone who lives down there, if they've been to Southeast Missouri, i'm sure they will tell you how different it looks and feels from southwest Missouri. Southwest Missouri honestly feels like a hodgepodge of Midwest, Great Plains, Ozark, and South, to me when I was in these cities it seemed like I was on the verge of entering Dixie, meaning the Southern influences and feel were getting strong, but the appearance, speech patterns, and feel to me were just not quite there yet....i did not really hear any Southern speech patterns while I was down there... Ozark culture has strong Southern influences but it is also a thing of its own. We may not come to an agreement about Southwest Missouri Plains, i will agree that it's Southern influences are strong but I just don't think you can call cities that are located near the Missouri-Oklahoma-Kansas-Arkansas border TRULY Dixie places. Springfield and Joplin as I have stated before feel like a meeting of the Midwest, Ozark region, Great Plains, and Mid-South, and if not the Midwest which is more likely than not the case, DEFINITELY the latter three. To my surprise, much of the drive along I-44 once you were past the Mississippi River bluffs on I-44 and then Rolla, where the Ozark foothills begin, you actually encountered a scene similar to the Midwest...green acreage of farms, cornfields, grain silos, farms...gentle rolling hills blended in with the OZark foothills.
OK, I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The Ozark culture is definitely strong in areas of south-central and southern Missouri. This actually begins only a few counties south of the KC metro. The areas that are Dixie would be the the counties all along the southern border of Missouri and the boot heel. Another poster on the Missouri forum also mentioned that Joplin may have experienced an influx of people moving in because of the relatively cheap cost of real estate and overall cost of living. This may partly explain why the population of Jasper County has increased a lot in the last 6 years even though the non-farm employment in the county has declined. Other rural counties in Missouri like I mentioned before have increasing populations even though non-farm employment has declined. This rural population gain with non-farm employment declines is SIMILAR to other states in the south that traditionally had a greater concentration of people living in rural areas compared with urban metro areas.
In terms of climate SW Missouri is unique because of the Ozark Plateau. The summer temperatures in Springfield, for example, tend to be milder compared with areas that are not located on the plateau. Winter temperatures can be highly variable, but definitely colder than southeast Missouri.
In terms of the rural landscape it is similar to the Midwest in a few ways. First, you still have a larger number of family farms in Missouri compared with other states. This means that more people live in rural areas compared with the Great Plains which has a rapidly declining rural population in many counties. Second, you have the familiar types of buildings such as barns and the double silos typical of dairy farms. This is more common in northern Missouri.
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:35 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,905,824 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plains10 View Post
OK, I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The Ozark culture is definitely strong in areas of south-central and southern Missouri. This actually begins only a few counties south of the KC metro. The areas that are Dixie would be the the counties all along the southern border of Missouri and the boot heel. Another poster on the Missouri forum also mentioned that Joplin may have experienced an influx of people moving in because of the relatively cheap cost of real estate and overall cost of living. This may partly explain why the population of Jasper County has increased a lot in the last 6 years even though the non-farm employment in the county has declined. Other rural counties in Missouri like I mentioned before have increasing populations even though non-farm employment has declined. This rural population gain with non-farm employment declines is SIMILAR to other states in the south that traditionally had a greater concentration of people living in rural areas compared with urban metro areas.
In terms of climate SW Missouri is unique because of the Ozark Plateau. The summer temperatures in Springfield, for example, tend to be milder compared with areas that are not located on the plateau. Winter temperatures can be highly variable, but definitely colder than southeast Missouri.
In terms of the rural landscape it is similar to the Midwest in a few ways. First, you still have a larger number of family farms in Missouri compared with other states. This means that more people live in rural areas compared with the Great Plains which has a rapidly declining rural population in many counties. Second, you have the familiar types of buildings such as barns and the double silos typical of dairy farms. This is more common in northern Missouri.
Now I agree, apologize if I'm coming across as hostile, not intending to be that way at all. I agree well over 50% for the most part with what you say, I just wanted to clear up what I meant earlier...I hope that you understand that.

Last edited by ajf131; 07-05-2007 at 03:56 AM..
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