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Old 07-22-2010, 10:05 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,578,675 times
Reputation: 1266

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
You are correct, southern politicos do understand the true Constitution did not allow blacks, women or 90% of white men to vote and just in case THAT wasn't enough to thwart the will of the people they also put in place a House of Lords, excuse me, Senate to see to it.
And just in case that wasn't enough, an electoral college so if people did vote the wrong way they could butcher popular will by that means.
Not to mention gerrymandering every ten years so that the "represenatives" have voters not the voters represenatives.

People often think of the US as the first new country, in reality its the last old one,with a system established before the French Revolution that was outdated at the time much less now.
First of all, white male property owners of twenty one years of age or older are who were permitted to vote. Blacks at the time were thought of as property, given the fact that most were slaves, and the fact that most were rather savage and uncivilized as a result of not being far-removed from the mother land. It's not as though the blacks of the time were the same as they are of today. Besides, there were white indentured servants who had no rights. Also remember that slavery was a worldwide phenomenon at the time.

The electoral college is population of the respective states, and it doesn't judge based on ideology or race. It's a population indicator relating to electors for specific elections. This doesn't "butcher" anyone's vote, as it is a winner-take-all system for the state, and sometimes it favors Democrats, and sometimes it favors Republicans, based upon the majority of the state. Do I at times wish we had a different form of representative government that assigns a proportionate number of represenatives according to the percent of the vote they obtained, such as in the UK, or even a few states, such as Maine, in the electoral college. Yes. However, that said, it isn't discriminatory, as you're making.

Gerrymandering is illegal, but still, some districts admittedly are oddly shaped. The facts are that both parties, depending on who is in power at the state level following the census, works for the benefit of their party, as they'll have ten years. Some of the craziest districts have been instituted by Democrat-controlled state governments as opposed to Republican-controlled state governments, and yet generally only the Republican-influenced districts are generally struck down, despite usually being more concentric or of a mass. Why? The ACLU and other left wing groups, supported in the courts by left wing judges. They argue that if a certain number of districts aren't majority minority, then they're being discriminatory. Mind you, this doesn't apply to whites when they are a minority in the state, a discriminatory double-standard in and of itself. A a result, these judges have ruled such blatantly gerrymandered districts that string out along an entire state, much like a snake, as constitutional, simply because it is majority minority, but they have ruled districts composed of counties side-by-side in an even format as unconstitutional, simply because a certain number of districts within the state couldn't be constructed in such a way as to garner a minority majority (oxymoron), when, if you truly think about it, is discriminatory towards the majority population, as it is artificially deflating the will of the majority through quotas.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:08 AM
 
7,594 posts, read 9,446,457 times
Reputation: 8954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Please explain?

Do you support the Founding Fathers and the documents of the bill of rights, as well as the points of the separation of powers, and powers delegated to the states not specifically dedicated to the federal government?

If not, I understand where you are coming from.

However, if you were a true Constitutionalist, who understands the Constitution, and who understands policies being pushed are not of American ideals, but are more in line with a socialist state, then you wouldn't say as you do.

For the most part, most southern politicians, minus the democrats, are more in line with the Constitution.

What southern politicians do you specifically disagree with, and why?

By the way, there are a number of non-southern consitutionalists, or those more in line with traditional values, which is a good thing, so if you're going to throw stones, you haven't a reason to do so. To do so, would be to argue that you hate everything that America is supposed to stand for.
Another post from the Tea-Party brigade.....they are under the illusion that it's still 1787, and the world hasn't changed since then...
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:10 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,578,675 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Another post from the Tea-Party brigade.....they are under the illusion that it's still 1787, and the world hasn't changed since then...
You are under the illusion that we live in a socialist government, and that the will of the people wants it, despite evidence to the contrary.

You are under the illusion that there is not a true process to change the government, such as through ammendments, but you don't want people to be too bothered to work for such, as it is not popular, and there would be lots of resistance. Thus, you seek the courts and left wing politicians to dictate and go around the rule of law of this nation.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:17 AM
 
7,594 posts, read 9,446,457 times
Reputation: 8954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
You are under the illusion that we live in a socialist government, and that the will of the people wants it, despite evidence to the contrary.

You are under the illusion that there is not a true process to change the government, such as through ammendments, but you don't want people to be too bothered to work for such, as it is not popular, and there would be lots of resistance. Thus, you seek the courts and left wing politicians to dictate and go around the rule of law of this nation.
Take this to the Political Forum, where it belongs...and turn off Fox News once in a while..
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:02 AM
 
507 posts, read 769,751 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
First of all, white male property owners of twenty one years of age or older are who were permitted to vote. Blacks at the time were thought of as property, given the fact that most were slaves, and the fact that most were rather savage and uncivilized as a result of not being far-removed from the mother land. It's not as though the blacks of the time were the same as they are of today. Besides, there were white indentured servants who had no rights. Also remember that slavery was a worldwide phenomenon at the time.

The electoral college is population of the respective states, and it doesn't judge based on ideology or race. It's a population indicator relating to electors for specific elections. This doesn't "butcher" anyone's vote, as it is a winner-take-all system for the state, and sometimes it favors Democrats, and sometimes it favors Republicans, based upon the majority of the state. Do I at times wish we had a different form of representative government that assigns a proportionate number of represenatives according to the percent of the vote they obtained, such as in the UK, or even a few states, such as Maine, in the electoral college. Yes. However, that said, it isn't discriminatory, as you're making.

Gerrymandering is illegal, but still, some districts admittedly are oddly shaped. The facts are that both parties, depending on who is in power at the state level following the census, works for the benefit of their party, as they'll have ten years. Some of the craziest districts have been instituted by Democrat-controlled state governments as opposed to Republican-controlled state governments, and yet generally only the Republican-influenced districts are generally struck down, despite usually being more concentric or of a mass. Why? The ACLU and other left wing groups, supported in the courts by left wing judges. They argue that if a certain number of districts aren't majority minority, then they're being discriminatory. Mind you, this doesn't apply to whites when they are a minority in the state, a discriminatory double-standard in and of itself. A a result, these judges have ruled such blatantly gerrymandered districts that string out along an entire state, much like a snake, as constitutional, simply because it is majority minority, but they have ruled districts composed of counties side-by-side in an even format as unconstitutional, simply because a certain number of districts within the state couldn't be constructed in such a way as to garner a minority majority (oxymoron), when, if you truly think about it, is discriminatory towards the majority population, as it is artificially deflating the will of the majority through quotas.

Do you prefer Grape or Strawberry ?
I know hundreds of politicaL scientists around the world and have never met one honest one who would not.at least in private, admit the US is the least democratic country among all developed countries.not one.

And no amount of convoluted rambling can change that elemental fact.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:08 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,578,675 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Take this to the Political Forum, where it belongs...and turn off Fox News once in a while..
I don't even watch Fox News, or much television for the matter. I look at the issues for the way they truly are. Turn off MSNBC, or any form of propaganda that you've had seep into your head from whatever avenue.

You see, I'm with the rule of law and reality, you're not with either.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:09 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,578,675 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
Do you prefer Grape or Strawberry ?
I know hundreds of politicaL scientists around the world and have never met one honest one who would not.at least in private, admit the US is the least democratic country among all developed countries.not one.

And no amount of convoluted rambling can change that elemental fact.
Who are the political scientists and their e-mail addresses or links?

What countries are more democratic, considering the hold that political correctness has on the masses in Europe, where they jail or fine you for politically correct thoughts or statements?
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
4,969 posts, read 7,316,975 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
You are correct, southern politicos do understand the true Constitution did not allow blacks, women or 90% of white men to vote and just in case THAT wasn't enough to thwart the will of the people they also put in place a House of Lords, excuse me, Senate to see to it.And just in case that wasn't enough, an electoral college so if people did vote the wrong way they could butcher popular will by that means.
Not to mention gerrymandering every ten years so that the "represenatives" have voters not the voters represenatives.

People often think of the US as the first new country, in reality its the last old one,with a system established before the French Revolution that was outdated at the time much less now.
But you're slamming my thread since I'm saying racism is strongest in the South, but you post something like that?.....I'm confused.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:40 AM
 
507 posts, read 769,751 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
But you're slamming my thread since I'm saying racism is strongest in the South, but you post something like that?.....I'm confused.

I am a bit off topic, however much of what I described was put in place to
ensure because the southern founders like Washington, Jefferson etc were slave holders who wished to remain so .
In any event the southern states would have never entered into a union
where the continuation of slavery was in any doubt.

Racism is strongest in the South for these historical reasons but,as others have pointed out, is not rare anywhere .
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:27 PM
 
7,278 posts, read 13,523,592 times
Reputation: 3610
The most overtly racist place I have ever been is Greater Detroit.

Bar none.
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