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Old 07-22-2010, 01:32 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,579,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
The most overtly racist place I have ever been is Greater Detroit.

Bar none.
No kidding, look at their past mayor and city council.
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Old 07-22-2010, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,070 posts, read 2,116,280 times
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All i'm hearing about is racism from a black and white stance, but take into consideration that there are many other races in our country that have been discriminated against OUTSIDE the South.

In the Pacific states (West Coast), racism was primarily directed against Asian immigrants. Several immigration laws discriminated against Asians, and at different points the ethnic Chinese or other groups were banned from entering the United States. Nonwhites were prohibited from testifying against whites, a prohibition extended to the Chinese by People v. Hall. The Chinese were often subject to harder labor on the First Transcontinental Railroad and often performed the more dangerous tasks such as using dynamite to make pathways through the mountains. The San Francisco Vigilance Movement, although ostensibly a response to crime and corruption, also systematically victimized Irish immigrants, and later this was transformed into mob violence against Chinese immigrants. Anti-Chinese sentiment was also rife in early Los Angeles, culminating in a notorious 1871 riot in which a mob comprising every other nationality then resident in the city. In the ensuing inquests and trials, all the perpetrators either were acquitted, or received only light punishments for lesser offenses, because the testimony of Chinese witnesses was either completely inadmissible, or else considered less credible than that of others. Legal discrimination of Asian minorities was furthered with the passages of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which banned the entrance of virtually all ethnic Chinese immigrants into the United States until 1943.

After the Mexican-American War (1846–1848), the U.S. annexed much of the current Southwestern region from Mexico. Mexicans residing in that territory found themselves subject to discrimination. It is estimated that at least 597 Mexicans were lynched between 1848 and 1928 (this is a conservative estimate due to lack of records in many reported lynchings). Mexicans were lynched at a rate of 27.4 per 100,000 of population between 1880 and 1930. This statistic is second only to that of the African American community during that period, which suffered an average of 37.1 per 100,000 population. Between 1848 to 1879, Mexicans were lynched at an unprecedented rate of 473 per 100,000 of population.


During The Great Depression, the U.S. government sponsored a Mexican Repatriation program which was intended to encourage Mexican immigrants to voluntarily return to Mexico, however, many were forcibly removed against their will. In total, up to one million persons of Mexican ancestry were deported, approximately 60 percent of those individuals were actually U.S. citizens.


Antisemitism has also played a role in America. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, hundreds of thousands of Ashkenazi Jews were escaping the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. They boarded boats from ports on the Baltic Sea and in Northern Germany, and largely arrived at Ellis Island, New York. It is thought by Leo Rosten, in his book, 'The Joys of Yiddish', that as soon as they left the boat, they were subject to racism from the port immigration authorities. A derogatory term was adopted when referring to Jews (because they often could not write so they may have signed their immigration papers with circles - or kikel in Yiddish).

Let's go back to black and white a moment. New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pensylvania, New Hampshire, Maryland, and Rhode Island all had slavery. In total, 31 states had slavery, although some of them in very small numbers.

I could go on, there are many more examples, but i'm not writing a novel here. Stop being hypocrites.

Last edited by jhadorn; 07-22-2010 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:15 PM
 
507 posts, read 769,999 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
The most overtly racist place I have ever been is Greater Detroit.

Bar none.

And?
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:56 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
And?
And? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

I will repeat it til Hell freezes over, the biggest difference in segregation and "racism" in the Southern states was that the South was just much less hypocritical about it all.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:32 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
I don't mean to slam the South. I know some fine people and relatives from that region and my apologies to those of you who are from the South who are not bigoted and clinging to conservative, racist values.

I do continue to have nothing but disdain to those of you from the South (or anywhere for that matter) who are bigoted and supporters of the conservative ideology. Given the region's political leanings and reputation for racial insensitivity, does the image of the region suffer? You bet!
Well, I suppose your very qualified apology speaks a bit well of you. On the other hand, the larger sentiment that any who embrace a conservative ideology are, by default, "racists", "sexist". 'homophobic", etc, just demonstrates that those who beat their breasts about being "tolerant" are exactly the opposite of the definition they themselves outline.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:33 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,579,784 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
And? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

I will repeat it til Hell freezes over, the biggest difference in segregation and "racism" in the Southern states was that the South was just much less hypocritical about it all.
Another reason is that the South had a lot of non-whites in addition to its white population, which gave rise for greater conflict, relative to the other regions who had no concept or experience with what the South had to deal with. More diverse areas have always been more confrontational than more homogeneous areas, as it's a product of human nature and diverse areas. This occurs worldwide.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,708,904 times
Reputation: 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Well, I suppose your very qualified apology speaks a bit well of you. On the other hand, the larger sentiment that any who embrace a conservative ideology are, by default, "racists", "sexist". 'homophobic", etc, just demonstrates that those who beat their breasts about being "tolerant" are exactly the opposite of the definition they themselves outline.
Very well put, Brother.

I'm a Southern Dem (pretty much the most socially conservative guy on the block), and I reject the far-left liberal extremists every bit as much (if not more) as the extremist nutjobs on the far-right.

Tolerance and balance seem to be unattainable goals in this day&age by our politicians.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:40 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Another reason is that the South had a lot of non-whites in addition to its white population, which gave rise for greater conflict, relative to the other regions who had no concept or experience with what the South had to deal with. More diverse areas have always been more confrontational than more homogeneous areas, as it's a product of human nature and diverse areas. This occurs worldwide.
This is very true, even if it is not politically correct to acknowledge it. It is very easy to chalk up racial tension to simple bigotry if one doesn't live in an area where large majority/minority populations are not only the rule, but have been the historical rule. Or, if one lives in such a cloistered area (by viritue of income or de-facto segregation) they are oblivious to such.

I wish I could find the exact quote from the exact wag who first said it, but it went along the ironic lines of "The country could learn a lot from the harmonious relationships between Eskimoes and Fifth Avenue New Yorkers."

It is real easy to beat the breast and bongo drums of self-righteousness in the realm of race-relations if one not only never had to confront it, but are even unaware of their own history. I will repeat it until doomsday, the only difference in the South and other parts of the country in this regard is that Southerners were just less hypocritical about it.

I can think of no better illustration of this than when the "Civil Rights" movement went into the North. Suddenly, many northern politicians who had previously supported every federal measure aimed against the South, put their mouths and agendas in reverse when it came to THEIR backyard.

And it is no accident that, today, it is black and white Southerners who express the most positive outlook on race-relations. I am proud of that, as most black and white Southerners are.

I guess my bottom line is that the South-bashers need to identify the saints before condemning the sinners. Or? Clean up the dirt in their own houses before presuming the credentials to sweep out anybody elses!

Last edited by TexasReb; 07-23-2010 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:38 PM
 
507 posts, read 769,999 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhadorn View Post
All i'm hearing about is racism from a black and white stance, but take into consideration that there are many other races in our country that have been discriminated against OUTSIDE the South.

In the Pacific states (West Coast), racism was primarily directed against Asian immigrants. Several immigration laws discriminated against Asians, and at different points the ethnic Chinese or other groups were banned from entering the United States. Nonwhites were prohibited from testifying against whites, a prohibition extended to the Chinese by People v. Hall. The Chinese were often subject to harder labor on the First Transcontinental Railroad and often performed the more dangerous tasks such as using dynamite to make pathways through the mountains. The San Francisco Vigilance Movement, although ostensibly a response to crime and corruption, also systematically victimized Irish immigrants, and later this was transformed into mob violence against Chinese immigrants. Anti-Chinese sentiment was also rife in early Los Angeles, culminating in a notorious 1871 riot in which a mob comprising every other nationality then resident in the city. In the ensuing inquests and trials, all the perpetrators either were acquitted, or received only light punishments for lesser offenses, because the testimony of Chinese witnesses was either completely inadmissible, or else considered less credible than that of others. Legal discrimination of Asian minorities was furthered with the passages of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which banned the entrance of virtually all ethnic Chinese immigrants into the United States until 1943.

After the Mexican-American War (1846–1848), the U.S. annexed much of the current Southwestern region from Mexico. Mexicans residing in that territory found themselves subject to discrimination. It is estimated that at least 597 Mexicans were lynched between 1848 and 1928 (this is a conservative estimate due to lack of records in many reported lynchings). Mexicans were lynched at a rate of 27.4 per 100,000 of population between 1880 and 1930. This statistic is second only to that of the African American community during that period, which suffered an average of 37.1 per 100,000 population. Between 1848 to 1879, Mexicans were lynched at an unprecedented rate of 473 per 100,000 of population.


During The Great Depression, the U.S. government sponsored a Mexican Repatriation program which was intended to encourage Mexican immigrants to voluntarily return to Mexico, however, many were forcibly removed against their will. In total, up to one million persons of Mexican ancestry were deported, approximately 60 percent of those individuals were actually U.S. citizens.


Antisemitism has also played a role in America. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, hundreds of thousands of Ashkenazi Jews were escaping the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. They boarded boats from ports on the Baltic Sea and in Northern Germany, and largely arrived at Ellis Island, New York. It is thought by Leo Rosten, in his book, 'The Joys of Yiddish', that as soon as they left the boat, they were subject to racism from the port immigration authorities. A derogatory term was adopted when referring to Jews (because they often could not write so they may have signed their immigration papers with circles - or kikel in Yiddish).

Let's go back to black and white a moment. New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pensylvania, New Hampshire, Maryland, and Rhode Island all had slavery. In total, 31 states had slavery, although some of them in very small numbers.

I could go on, there are many more examples, but i'm not writing a novel here. Stop being hypocrites.

All this is true,however the fact remains that racism directed towards blacks has always been, and remains to be, a factor more important in shaping both the history and present of the US than all you describe by a factor of ten or more.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,070 posts, read 2,116,280 times
Reputation: 1416
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
All this is true,however the fact remains that racism directed towards blacks has always been, and remains to be, a factor more important in shaping both the history and present of the US than all you describe by a factor of ten or more.
Negative. It's all an important factor in shaping our history and present. Our future is centered on a global scale. United Nations, NAFTA, global economy... those people we once discriminated against (remember the Mexican-American war and the details I mentioned earlier?) we will be in much closer dealings with in the future.

You're saying that it is less consequential to discrimate against someone who isn't black (you are very wrong, by the way), therefore, it's ok that the rest of the country discriminated against Asians, Jews, Mexicans, etc.

I'm not buying it. Discrimination is discrimination, people are people, and one doesn't have more worth than another.
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