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Old 07-23-2010, 01:15 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,581,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Pittsburgh is actually the most white-collar major U.S. metro outside of Washington DC.
That's why a significant percentage of the metro area is filled with people walking around with Pittsburgh Steelers and Pittsburgh Penguins shirts. Not a small amount, but a large percentage, at some points as much as ten percent.

That's pretty blue collar, in my opinion.

In no way is Pittsburgh the most white collar city, considering its steel industry past.

There's nothing wrong with being blue collar, and in many regards, it's favorable to white collar cities, as the people are often more friendly.
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,464 posts, read 7,529,757 times
Reputation: 4363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
You're right. People in the areas of DC, Baltimore, and parts of PA and south Jersey don't have the northern speech found in parts of NYC and places northward. They have a more neutral pattern of speech, and sometimes you'll even hear southern inflections in their voices.
The exact region you're describing is the Midland region, which does indeed have its own set of dialects. In particular, the Philly area and South Jersey have a fairly unique and distinct speech pattern that -- while different from NNJ/NY -- is definitely a northern accent. Some prominent examples (TV personalities) include Chris Matthews and Jim Cramer:

How to Speak With a Philadelphia Accent | eHow.com

Baltimore's dialect is very related to this, but slightly different:

Baltimore dialect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The DC area is one place where I would agree there is a "General American" speech pattern, mostly based on the fact that (especially in the recent past) it is such a melting pot of people from all over the country.

Last edited by Duderino; 07-23-2010 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,182,008 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
The exact region you're describing is the Midland region, which does indeed have its own set of dialects. In particular, the Philly area and South Jersey have a fairly unique and distinct speech pattern that -- while different from NNJ/NY -- is definitely a northern accent. Some prominent examples (TV personalities) include Chris Matthews and Jim Cramer:

How to Speak With a Philadelphia Accent | eHow.com

Baltimore's dialect is very related to this, but slightly different:

Baltimore dialect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The DC area is one place where I would agree there is a "General American" speech pattern, mostly based on the fact that (especially in the recent past) it is such a melting pot of people from all over the country.

Good links, I also found this interesting too

Funny thing is the link discusses South Jersey, AC, and Central Jersey (Trent Etc) as being culturally connected with Philly (but put in the NY CSA - but topic for another thread)

The use of geographically inaccurate dialects is also true in movies and television programs set in Atlantic City or any other region of South Jersey; the characters often use a supposed "Joisey" dialect, when in reality that New York-influenced dialect for New Jersey natives is almost always exclusive to the extreme northeastern region of the state nearest New York City. An important factor here is that in the real world, "local" TV, political, and sports personalities in South Jersey and part of Central Jersey are culturally associated with Philadelphia, not New York City.

Philadelphia dialect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,968,158 times
Reputation: 3093
$mk....

Wherever MD is officially located (southern or northern) the vast majority of Maryland natives and residents consider themselves a part of the Mid-Atlantic region. Baltimore has more in common with Philly than any city down south- Maryland's wealth and suburbs are in the league with NJ and CT.

I'd say Salisbury, MD is where "southern" draws its line, but anything north of that is north eastern.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV
1,000 posts, read 1,598,656 times
Reputation: 493
This is what I consider Southern :

Virginia
N. Carolina
S. Carolina
Georgia
Missouri
Mississippi
Alabama
Arkansas
Louisiana
Kentucky
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Texas
Florida
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:50 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,123,607 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteNCRepublican View Post
This is what I consider Southern :

Virginia
N. Carolina
S. Carolina
Georgia
Missouri
Mississippi
Alabama
Arkansas
Louisiana
Kentucky
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Texas
Florida
Well done and accurate IMHO. This also reflects the states (with exceptions noted below) where a majority of the residents consider themselves to live in the South and consider themselves Southerners.

Only quibbles I would make?

West Virginia be given some mention. Bobilee has made a persuasive case that it has gotten a raw deal in many ways, as to being part of the South. True, only a slight majority do not consider themselves part of the South, but at the least, I think most of us would not consider it "yankee"! LOL

Also, Missouri I have less hesitation about excluding from the "Greater South." It has very definite Southern roots and history, but it was very divided during the WBTS, and a decided majority of residents do not consider themselves part of the South.

I guess it really comes down to (and again this is minor) I would generally include West Virginia...but by the same opposite degree of opinion...exclude Missouri. But as always, just my own worthless two cents worth! Yikes!

Last edited by TexasReb; 07-23-2010 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: New England & The Maritimes
2,116 posts, read 4,204,762 times
Reputation: 1114
Oooh sometimes I make bold statements and think a thread has disappeared but then it comes back. I actually noticed kidphilly call me out, and was planning a long explanation but Duderino called me out more specifically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post



Many more Southern characteristics than Boston? The only two things about Philly that could be considered even remotely more "Southern" compared to Boston would be 1.) a much larger African-American population and 2.) a slightly more temperate/Mid-Atlantic climate.

However, even taking those two things into consideration: Boston (and New England in general) seems to be the anomoly with regard to a relative low AA population; most Northern cities/states gained very substantial AA populations during the Great Migration. Also, the climate in Philly is exactly like New York/New Jersey, so, again, not unique within the North. Thus, I'm at a huge loss with that comment.

Okay, so I should first say that obviously Philadelphia, New York, and the
mid-atlantic region are not southern and New England & The Mid-Atlantic have waaaay more in common than they don't. I was exagerating to make a point that all cultural regions are relative to where you are. Texas might be western to a Carolinian but not to a Californian. Michigan might be the north to a southern, but the midwest to someone from NYC. Obviously, Philly is the south to nobody but I needed a spark to make the point powerful. and I did emphasize in my original post, that I am noooooot calling Philly, or even DC or Baltimore "southern". Just that regions fade from one to another, and that everything is relative.

You did however, point out the only really concrete characteristic that makes Philly, Nyc, etc more southern than Boston (and this is something I have been brainstorming all week). I wasn't going to mention climate just because that's obvious geographic difference and by this same measure, Quebec is more "northern" than Boston and Miami is more "southern" than Charleston. So i really wanted to only point out cultural traits and the one major trait is African-American population. You even said "Great Migration" which was going to be the focal point of my argument. So a speech any longer than this seems unnessecary now when at least one Philly resident can read my mind.

So let me emphasize that Philadelphia is in NO WAY Southern. and doesn't have many more southern traits than Boston. But, due to massive waves of immigration from the south (AA great migration) that didn't get to NE in the same numbers, Philly, New York, Chicago, and Detroit all have just a liiiiiiittle bit more Southern influence than Boston. (and just for the record, I am not trying to be the "most northern" or anything, because I don't think any sort of "northern culture" exists).

I hope I worded this cautiously enough to avoid a war.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,464 posts, read 7,529,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit View Post

I hope I worded this cautiously enough to avoid a war.
Haha, definitely. I was more confused than anything, but you've clarified yourself pretty logically.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,182,008 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit View Post
Oooh sometimes I make bold statements and think a thread has disappeared but then it comes back. I actually noticed kidphilly call me out, and was planning a long explanation but Duderino called me out more specifically.




Okay, so I should first say that obviously Philadelphia, New York, and the
mid-atlantic region are not southern and New England & The Mid-Atlantic have waaaay more in common than they don't. I was exagerating to make a point that all cultural regions are relative to where you are. Texas might be western to a Carolinian but not to a Californian. Michigan might be the north to a southern, but the midwest to someone from NYC. Obviously, Philly is the south to nobody but I needed a spark to make the point powerful. and I did emphasize in my original post, that I am noooooot calling Philly, or even DC or Baltimore "southern". Just that regions fade from one to another, and that everything is relative.

You did however, point out the only really concrete characteristic that makes Philly, Nyc, etc more southern than Boston (and this is something I have been brainstorming all week). I wasn't going to mention climate just because that's obvious geographic difference and by this same measure, Quebec is more "northern" than Boston and Miami is more "southern" than Charleston. So i really wanted to only point out cultural traits and the one major trait is African-American population. You even said "Great Migration" which was going to be the focal point of my argument. So a speech any longer than this seems unnessecary now when at least one Philly resident can read my mind.

So let me emphasize that Philadelphia is in NO WAY Southern. and doesn't have many more southern traits than Boston. But, due to massive waves of immigration from the south (AA great migration) that didn't get to NE in the same numbers, Philly, New York, Chicago, and Detroit all have just a liiiiiiittle bit more Southern influence than Boston. (and just for the record, I am not trying to be the "most northern" or anything, because I don't think any sort of "northern culture" exists).

I hope I worded this cautiously enough to avoid a war.

Fair but you could also argue the migration to more tolerant areas, the most Southern at the being Philly may have had some influence as well as the underground railroad network which is all over and well documented in the area.

If anything though in all honesty and i am trying to start a war, this AA population is more the norm than the exception in the north so I am not 100% sure it holds up completely. In that respect Boston is the outlier.

In some ways I think the reach of the Ivy leagues is indicitive of the North or NE from the time, when there was a greater disparity in tolerance and education between the two (North and South). Those diferances are becoming less and less everyday and have excelrated in recnt times.

Today i would still put the biggest line south of NOVA, most of VA feels more Southern than Northern, MD has pockets but not like south of NOVA unless you get out on the eastern shore. Western MD is more like appalachia WV and PA, some hints too but not the more prounounced change that happens a little south of NOVA.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,748 posts, read 6,154,664 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
What is "act southern" to you? I think that is the bigger question rather than the question of whether Maryland is southern or not. So many people have a distorted and unreasonably negative view of "southern" that they can't actually believe they live in a southern state...because it doesn't fit their stereotype of "southern".

I've known plenty of people from Maryland who identified with the South. Just because there is a majority on city-data who agree with your opinion doesn't mean that it transfers to the real world.
The difference is, you know people from Maryland, I was born, raised, and currently live in Maryland. I dont have to ask people on C-D, I can ask family, friends, co-workers; None of which consider themselves southern in any way, shape or form.

I dont view the South in a negative manner, that was the past. That region of the country is progressing more than any other region in the country....They also have the Sexiest women in the country; DC and Philly too.
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