U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:06 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,161,575 times
Reputation: 7738

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
Houston will over take Chicago in city population & D/FW will over take Chicago's metro population at the current growth rate of all 3 cities.

That is what we're getting at here.

All you have to do is look at the numbers.

Houston & D/FW are trailing Chicago by a small margin.

Just like how Houston passed up Philly not long ago.
On MSA

trailing by 35 and 40% a small margin (and these with the generous denominator, the non generous denominator says at their current count they are 66 and 60% smaller)

Last edited by kidphilly; 11-02-2011 at 01:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 23,108,472 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post


And SA and Austin will overtake both based on the current rate, see what I did there
The growth trends of those cities won't make them a single metro any time soon. Not unless rail or a super highway comes along.

The I-35 corridor is a cluster **** between D/FW & San Antonio. Its not something I enjoy driving on.

Last time it took me 3 hours just to get from Waco to Austin. Its only supposed to take 1 1/2.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,169,813 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
On MSA

trailing by 35 and 40% a small margin
pfft, The new Metro definitions now have Chicago swallowing Milwaukee, Detroit and St Louis, and Houston swallowing Dallas, San Antonio and Austin.

Who wins???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago
422 posts, read 688,641 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
I've already made an entire post, clearly pointing out to you why these things are true. Did even bother reading it?

Again, it isn't Houston's responsibility to educate you on the local culture. Turn off the television, and discover it for yourself.
As I tried to point out this is not about convincing me personally, it is about a cultural image projected to the entire country and world.

Also as far as Houston surpassing anybody nothing is inevitable, population trends change and even if the population is growing faster than other places people sensationalize how close everything is. As others have said Houston and Dallas are lagging behind Chicago metro by 35-40% and even the city of Houston is 600K behind in population from Chicago. Under the most ideal scenario for Houston that is still 20 years away and I think it is pretty nuts to talk about something that far in the future as if it has already happened and really only a possibility. Of course it could happen but anything not happening this decade is an exercise in the hypothetical, it is not a fact that anything in particular will happen, it is not some state of denial on the part of people in Chicago, to the contrary anyone who's value of a city is based on how it will rank in population and who it will surpass decades in the future is the one with an issue. Chicago vs. Los Angeles in the 1980 census with a population difference of only 38K, now that is an example of close and a sense of inevitability. Only in the sensationalized modern culture we live in would a 600K spread even be newsworthy.

As I said you need an identity other than city limit population getting close to other cities, if there was a stronger identity than the city's population rank would be mute. Do you think people in San Francisco are losing sleep over the fact that San Jose, Jacksonville and Indianapolis' city limits have higher population than their city? I think not, San Francisco has a much stronger cultural identity than any of them. Of course Houston has the potential to create an identity but people need to realize that is far more important than city limits population or rank. I mean if Houston were to annex enough land tomorrow to surpass Chicago in population would that magically make it a more important city? Of course not. Someone mentioned Houston's skyline, that is a start but unlike NYC or Chicago there isn't as strong as a cultural identity to go along with the skyline. Again that is just my constructive observation, I am not out to knock Houston or anyone, to the contrary I think the people who focus on this Chicago vs. Houston population thing are the ones who are knocking a place down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,802,907 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
As I tried to point out this is not about convincing me personally, it is about a cultural image projected to the entire country and world.

Also as far as Houston surpassing anybody nothing is inevitable, population trends change and even if the population is growing faster than other places people sensationalize how close everything is. As others have said Houston and Dallas are lagging behind Chicago metro by 35-40% and even the city of Houston is 600K behind in population from Chicago. Under the most ideal scenario for Houston that is still 20 years away and I think it is pretty nuts to talk about something that far in the future as if it has already happened and really only a possibility. Of course it could happen but anything not happening this decade is an exercise in the hypothetical, it is not a fact that anything in particular will happen, it is not some state of denial on the part of people in Chicago, to the contrary anyone who's value of a city is based on how it will rank in population and who it will surpass decades in the future is the one with an issue. Chicago vs. Los Angeles in the 1980 census with a population difference of only 38K, now that is an example of close and a sense of inevitability. Only in the sensationalized modern culture we live in would a 600K spread even be newsworthy.

As I said you need an identity other than city limit population getting close to other cities, if there was a stronger identity than the city's population rank would be mute. Do you think people in San Francisco are losing sleep over the fact that San Jose, Jacksonville and Indianapolis' city limits have higher population than their city? I think not, San Francisco has a much stronger cultural identity than any of them. Of course Houston has the potential to create an identity but people need to realize that is far more important than city limits population or rank. I mean if Houston were to annex enough land tomorrow to surpass Chicago in population would that magically make it a more important city? Of course not. Someone mentioned Houston's skyline, that is a start but unlike NYC or Chicago there isn't as strong as a cultural identity to go along with the skyline. Again that is just my constructive observation, I am not out to knock Houston or anyone, to the contrary I think the people who focus on this Chicago vs. Houston population thing are the ones who are knocking a place down.
And as I already said, Houston does have an identity. It's not the city's fault that the media has no interest in the south. Pay attention to what's being said.

If people aren't interested in Houston, then oh well. That doesn't stop it from being a great city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,802,907 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Is there really an argument now that Houston offers the variety and quality of cultural offerings than Chicago has...
I might have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone make that argument, in the past few pages.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 01:53 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,161,575 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
And as I already said, Houston does have an identity. It's not the city's fault that the media has no interest in the south. Pay attention to what's being said.

If people aren't interested in Houston, then oh well. That doesn't stop it from being a great city.

Houston is a great city and continues to get better, has it reached the level of Chicago, by most accounts no.

On Identity, I disagree - Houston does have an identity issue and needs to do a better job on the PR front and creating an image for the city (Please dont say Space City).

As far as media bias toward the South - not sure I buy that even one iota - what about Atlanta, Miami or even your TX bretheren of Austin. All get a ton of PR and media interest almost continually
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 02:06 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,802,907 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Houston is a great city and continues to get better, has it reached the level of Chicago, by most accounts no.
Never said otherwise.

Quote:
On Identity, I disagree - Houston does have an identity issue and needs to do a better job on the PR front and creating an image for the city (Please dont say Space City).
I wasn't going to. And this is only assuming that Houston even cares about being in the spotlight, which most natives certainly don't.

Quote:
As far as media bias toward the South - not sure I buy that even one iota - what about Atlanta, Miami or even your TX bretheren of Austin. All get a ton of PR and media interest almost continually
Miami is hardly considered the south, by most people. Austin has used its pull in the tech industry to promote this largely embellished facade of liveability, textbook liberalism, and "urbanity". Atlanta? Outside of black audiences, I wasn't aware that the general American public had a fascination with the city, aside from the Civil Rights, stereotypical images of Civil War heros, and GWTW characters.

Houston doesn't have the storybook history landmarks, it doesn't have any dramatic beauty or desirable weather, and it's not a glamorous entertainment city, but lacking these things doesn't mean Houston suffers from an identity crisis. It's simply not the kind of city to use gimmicks just to go after some television time.

Houston is working on becoming a better city for the people who live here, and the business travelers who pass through. The world's perception of them is of the least concern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago
422 posts, read 688,641 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
And as I already said, Houston does have an identity. It's not the city's fault that the media has no interest in the south. Pay attention to what's being said.

If people aren't interested in Houston, then oh well. That doesn't stop it from being a great city.
I never said it has no identity I am just saying compared to other older cities it has less of an identity that outsiders would recognize. As far as media recognition well this is not directed at you personally but when some Houstoners make a big deal about your city being (only) 600K smaller than Chicago that is asking for attention and then turn around and say you don't care what others think, you can't have it both ways. I would say promoting this theater district, ethnic neighborhoods and skyscraper architecture is far more important and productive than saying "look at us we are almost as big as Chicago!", the later will just come across as a desperate attempt for attention to everyone besides Houston fanboys and Chicago bashers.

Honestly this is probably one of the curses of not being New York City (they don't have to worry about rank or identity) and one of the other ten largest cities in the US, there tends to be a focus on where the city ranks. Cities with smaller city proper populations don't tend to focus on this, for instance it probably means little to people in San Francisco that their city is only 13th largest in the country, most probably don't even know it's rank. In Houston it seems that ranking 4th is a big part of the identity. Chicago's attitude is kind of inbetween San Francisco and Houston in that regard, on one hand there is pride in being the third largest city and having been the second largest city for a long time but at the same time most know we have a great city here regardless of the rank, we are not in some perpetual depression since the day Los Angeles overtook us as the second largest city. Also Houston is not the only city with this issue, there was another thread were someone claimed that it is inevitable Phoenix would surpass Chicago and if you think I have been tough on you guys you should have read what I said to that poster. Essentially though I told him the same thing, focus on cultural identity and not on rank, while it is good to think about the future it is pretty lame to have the self esteem of a city be based upon a hypothetical population (in this case) 50+ years in the future, honestly the same is true of Dallas which I have no idea is even mentioned in this thread. Some cities live in the past and brag about past glories (Detroit), one can live too much in the present and not think about the future but at the same time there is also thinking about living in the (hypothetical albeit plausible) future too much as with some of the sunbelt cities.

Last edited by chicago103; 11-02-2011 at 03:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,680,544 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
As I tried to point out this is not about convincing me personally, it is about a cultural image projected to the entire country and world.

Also as far as Houston surpassing anybody nothing is inevitable, population trends change and even if the population is growing faster than other places people sensationalize how close everything is. As others have said Houston and Dallas are lagging behind Chicago metro by 35-40% and even the city of Houston is 600K behind in population from Chicago. Under the most ideal scenario for Houston that is still 20 years away and I think it is pretty nuts to talk about something that far in the future as if it has already happened and really only a possibility. Of course it could happen but anything not happening this decade is an exercise in the hypothetical, it is not a fact that anything in particular will happen, it is not some state of denial on the part of people in Chicago, to the contrary anyone who's value of a city is based on how it will rank in population and who it will surpass decades in the future is the one with an issue. Chicago vs. Los Angeles in the 1980 census with a population difference of only 38K, now that is an example of close and a sense of inevitability. Only in the sensationalized modern culture we live in would a 600K spread even be newsworthy.

As I said you need an identity other than city limit population getting close to other cities, if there was a stronger identity than the city's population rank would be mute. Do you think people in San Francisco are losing sleep over the fact that San Jose, Jacksonville and Indianapolis' city limits have higher population than their city? I think not, San Francisco has a much stronger cultural identity than any of them. Of course Houston has the potential to create an identity but people need to realize that is far more important than city limits population or rank. I mean if Houston were to annex enough land tomorrow to surpass Chicago in population would that magically make it a more important city? Of course not. Someone mentioned Houston's skyline, that is a start but unlike NYC or Chicago there isn't as strong as a cultural identity to go along with the skyline. Again that is just my constructive observation, I am not out to knock Houston or anyone, to the contrary I think the people who focus on this Chicago vs. Houston population thing are the ones who are knocking a place down.
So what are we discussing here??? Perception or Reality??? Chicago is perceived as being a crime-ridden segregated decaying blue collar city surrounded by nothing but cornfields.

It seems to me Chicagoans are the ones getting restless over this. Houston at this point is on top of the world with a booming metropolitan area and economy [within this economy anyways]. We don't pride ourselves on being the 4th largest city unlike Chicago being 3rd largest who seems more pressed about population rankings.

The whole time I've seen throughout this thread "Houston may pass Chicago, but it'll never be Chicago!". Houston isn't striving or trying to achieve either one of those goals.

Last edited by blkgiraffe; 11-02-2011 at 02:50 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top