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Old 11-02-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago
422 posts, read 688,641 times
Reputation: 416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkgiraffe View Post
So what are we discussing here??? Perception or Reality??? Chicago is perceived as being a crime-ridden segregated decaying blue collar city surrounded by nothing but cornfields.

It seems to me Chicagoans are the ones getting restless over this. Houston at this point is on top of the world with a booming metropolitan area and economy [within this economy anyways]. We don't pride ourselves on being the 4th largest city unlike Chicago being 3rd largest who seems more pressed about population rankings.

The whole time I've seen throughout this thread "Houston may pass Chicago, but it'll never be Chicago!". Houston isn't striving or trying to achieve either one of those goals.
Of course every city has negative and ignorant perceptions including Houston where some think it is a cowboy town. I don't think that. My purpose actually is discussing reality, Chicago's population is what it is right now and Houston's population is what it is right now. I am not saying everyone in Houston is preoccupied with rank but I have seen a lot of articles about the supposed inevitability of Houston surpassing Chicago in the near future and threads like this. I just inject a dose of demographic reality, my point is that it is a plausible but still hypothetical future and it is sensationalized how close it is. I also don't think Chicago is that preoccupied with rank, I discussed above what I think most people think about it. I mostly speak for myself though as do most people on here. I am not restless I am just pointing out facts if someone says "Houston will surpass Chicago by 2020" and I as someone with a pretty good understanding of demography knows that is not the case it is not insecurity to point it out, it is just bringing people down to earth (no space/Houston pun intended) who need it, if it doesn't really matter to you than more power to you. I also never said it is impossible Houston will ever surpass Chicago in population and go off on some emotional rant with name calling. I have however seen people say Chicago will be Detroit in 10 years and Houston is kicking our butts, if I encounter that kind of stupidity then those people deserve to get kicked down a notch, it is not about being insecure, that is just psychological projection on their part, in reality they are probably more insecure about Chicago not being as bad off as they think/want it to be.

So bottom line on Houston surpassing Chicago in city proper population; Plausible? Of course!; Inevitable? No! In 1909 people drawing up the Burnham Plan predicted Chicago would have 12 million people (city proper) in the year 2000. This was based on the fact that Chicago was the fastest growing city in the world at one time and people assumed it would grow forever, people never anticipated that just a few decades later after 1950 the city proper will lose population. For heaven's sake Detroit was one of the fastest growing cities in the world 100 years ago. Houston and other sunbelt cities can learn from this, I am not saying it will lose population one day or even that I wish that fate on Houston, it is just a demonstration that making long range predictions with certainty is foolish.

Last edited by chicago103; 11-02-2011 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,802,907 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
I never said it has no identity I am just saying compared to other older cities it has less of an identity that outsiders would recognize. As far as media recognition well this is not directed at you personally but when some Houstoners make a big deal about your city being (only) 600K smaller than Chicago that is asking for attention and then turn around and say you don't care what others think, you can't have it both ways. I would say promoting this theater district, ethnic neighborhoods and skyscraper architecture is far more important and productive than saying "look at us we are almost as big as Chicago!", the later will just come across as a desperate attempt for attention to everyone besides Houston fanboys and Chicago bashers.

Honestly this is probably one of the curses of not being New York City (they don't have to worry about rank or identity) and one of the other ten largest cities in the US, there tends to be a focus on where the city ranks. Cities with smaller city proper populations don't tend to focus on this, for instance it probably means little to people in San Francisco that their city is only 13th largest in the country, most probably don't even know it's rank. In Houston it seems that ranking 4th is a big part of the identity. Chicago's attitude is kind of inbetween San Francisco and Houston in that regard, on one hand there is pride in being the third largest city and having been the second largest city for a long time but at the same time most know we have a great city here regardless of the rank, we are in some perpetual depression since the day Los Angeles overtook us as the second largest city. Also Houston is not the only city with this issue, there was another thread were someone claimed that it is inevitable Phoenix would surpass Chicago and if you think I have been tough on you guys you should have read what I said to that poster. Essentially though I told him the same thing, focus on cultural identity and not on rank, while it is good to think about the future it is pretty lame to have the self esteem of a city be based upon a hypothetical population (in this case) 50+ years in the future, honestly the same is true of Dallas which I have no idea is even mentioned in this thread. Some cities live in the past and brag about past glories (Detroit), one can live too much in the present and not think about the future but at the same time there is also thinking about living in the (hypothetical albeit plausible) future too much as with some of the sunbelt cities.
I agree about the population thing. It is pathetic to boost Houston on the basis of population, and I choose not to associate my points with those posters who do. I just think some people get caught up in the "excitement" of Houston possibly passing up a big time city in some way, but it's very silly and pointless.

Chicago is third in size, in city populations, but it's also third in metro population. Houston is quite aways behind.

Houston's city limits are only so large because it ate up a lot of land. It may surpass Chicago in city proper population, but will that put it on the same level as Chicago? Absolutely not.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,169,813 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
Houston's city limits are only so large because it ate up a lot of land. It may surpass Chicago in city proper population, but will that put it on the same level as Chicago? Absolutely not.
only insecure people feel threatened and bring up levels.
The question asked what will be the impact if Houston or Dallas pass Chicago and I and many others have already answered this. Our answer: LITTLE TO NONE.

Dunno why posters are still bringing up levels, and culture and all that crap (well at least I see most of it isn't even from Chicago posters). There is no need for that. there will be very little impact if that happens. Move on and lets talk about Chocolate.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago
422 posts, read 688,641 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
only insecure people feel threatened and bring up levels.
The question asked what will be the impact if Houston or Dallas pass Chicago and I and many others have already answered this. Our answer: LITTLE TO NONE.

Dunno why posters are still bringing up levels, and culture and all that crap (well at least I see most of it isn't even from Chicago posters). There is no need for that. there will be very little impact if that happens. Move on and lets talk about Chocolate.
That is pretty much what I am trying to say. I only bring up culture because I think that is a much more important way to build up a city than city proper population. Honestly if I didn't read articles about this issue and finding the misconceptions that I read I honestly wouldn't give a darn. I also want to figure out if people who say these things are just misinformed or do they have some kind of agenda.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,169,813 times
Reputation: 7598
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
That is pretty much what I am trying to say. I only bring up culture because I think that is a much more important way to build up a city than city proper population. Honestly if I didn't read articles about this issue and finding the misconceptions that I read I honestly wouldn't give a darn. I also want to figure out if people who say these things are just misinformed or do they have some kind of agenda.
Yes Chicago has more rich and deep culture than Houston. Just like the case with LA, if Houston passes Chicago, the culture thing won't change
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Glendale, CA
1,298 posts, read 2,112,022 times
Reputation: 1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo234 View Post
I am not sure where you got your information but all of the NASA space shuttles are or were completed at the Vehicle Assembly Building at Kennedy Space Center. Likewise the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama were responsible for the research/design of the rockets used in manned spacecraft.

Vehicle Assembly Building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marshall Space Flight Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Might want to check your sources.
Nope, my sources are fine:
"Space Shuttle's Birthplace Getting Demolished"
Space shuttle’s birthplace is getting demolished – The Write Stuff – Orlando Sentinel

"Boeing’s Palmdale plant, adjacent to Edwards Air Force Base, played a key role in assembling and maintaining all the orbiters built. As Rockwell International, which was later bought by Boeing, the facility developed and built all five orbiters: Atlantis, Challenger, Columbia, Discovery and Endeavour, as well as the Enterprise test vehicle."
"Palmdale-Built Space Shuttle To Find Permanent Home in Los Angeles"
Palmdale-built space shuttle to find permanent home in Los Angeles | Our Weekly - Black News | African American News | Black Entertainment | Black America
"Endeavour was built in Palmdale, beginning in 1987, to replace the destroyed Challenger shuttle, which exploded 73 seconds after takeoff on Jan. 28, 1986. Endeavour was completed in 1991."

"Space Shuttle Breathed New Life Into Rocketdyne"
Space shuttle breathed new life into Rocketdyne - LA Daily News

"Over the life of the space shuttle, Rocketdyne built 72 SSME engines, which took up to three years to make at the plant in Canoga Park. One former company engineer said early engines cost $35 million each."
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 23,108,472 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
Of course every city has negative and ignorant perceptions including Houston where some think it is a cowboy town. I don't think that. My purpose actually is discussing reality, Chicago's population is what it is right now and Houston's population is what it is right now. I am not saying everyone in Houston is preoccupied with rank but I have seen a lot of articles about the supposed inevitability of Houston surpassing Chicago in the near future and threads like this. I just inject a dose of demographic reality, my point is that it is a plausible but still hypothetical future and it is sensationalized how close it is. I also don't think Chicago is that preoccupied with rank, I discussed above what I think most people think about it. I mostly speak for myself though as do most people on here. I am not restless I am just pointing out facts if someone says "Houston will surpass Chicago by 2020" and I as someone with a pretty good understanding of demography knows that is not the case it is not insecurity to point it out, it is just bringing people down to earth (no space/Houston pun intended) who need it, if it doesn't really matter to you than more power to you. I also never said it is impossible Houston will ever surpass Chicago in population and go off on some emotional rant with name calling. I have however seen people say Chicago will be Detroit in 10 years and Houston is kicking our butts, if I encounter that kind of stupidity then those people deserve to get kicked down a notch, it is not about being insecure, that is just psychological projection on their part, in reality they are probably more insecure about Chicago not being as bad off as they think/want it to be.

So bottom line on Houston surpassing Chicago in city proper population; Plausible? Of course!; Inevitable? No! In 1909 people drawing up the Burnham Plan predicted Chicago would have 12 million people (city proper) in the year 2000. This was based on the fact that Chicago was the fastest growing city in the world at one time and people assumed it would grow forever, people never anticipated that just a few decades later after 1950 the city proper will lose population. For heaven's sake Detroit was one of the fastest growing cities in the world 100 years ago. Houston and other sunbelt cities can learn from this, I am not saying it will lose population one day or even that I wish that fate on Houston, it is just a demonstration that making long range predictions with certainty is foolish.
With the price of oil & Houston's diversifying economy I only see the city continuing to grow.

Houston is the Oil & Energy Capital of The World.

It also has the largest medical center in the world.

The Port of Houston is the largest foreign seaport in the US.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,680,544 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Matt View Post
With the price of oil & Houston's diversifying economy I only see the city continuing to grow.

Houston is the Oil & Energy Capital of The World.

It also has the largest medical center in the world.

The Port of Houston is the largest foreign seaport in the US.
and with the Panama Canal expansion; we're set. Houston is positioned to where it can experience long-term growth.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 23,108,472 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago103 View Post
As I tried to point out this is not about convincing me personally, it is about a cultural image projected to the entire country and world.

Also as far as Houston surpassing anybody nothing is inevitable, population trends change and even if the population is growing faster than other places people sensationalize how close everything is. As others have said Houston and Dallas are lagging behind Chicago metro by 35-40% and even the city of Houston is 600K behind in population from Chicago. Under the most ideal scenario for Houston that is still 20 years away and I think it is pretty nuts to talk about something that far in the future as if it has already happened and really only a possibility. Of course it could happen but anything not happening this decade is an exercise in the hypothetical, it is not a fact that anything in particular will happen, it is not some state of denial on the part of people in Chicago, to the contrary anyone who's value of a city is based on how it will rank in population and who it will surpass decades in the future is the one with an issue. Chicago vs. Los Angeles in the 1980 census with a population difference of only 38K, now that is an example of close and a sense of inevitability. Only in the sensationalized modern culture we live in would a 600K spread even be newsworthy.

As I said you need an identity other than city limit population getting close to other cities, if there was a stronger identity than the city's population rank would be mute. Do you think people in San Francisco are losing sleep over the fact that San Jose, Jacksonville and Indianapolis' city limits have higher population than their city? I think not, San Francisco has a much stronger cultural identity than any of them. Of course Houston has the potential to create an identity but people need to realize that is far more important than city limits population or rank. I mean if Houston were to annex enough land tomorrow to surpass Chicago in population would that magically make it a more important city? Of course not. Someone mentioned Houston's skyline, that is a start but unlike NYC or Chicago there isn't as strong as a cultural identity to go along with the skyline. Again that is just my constructive observation, I am not out to knock Houston or anyone, to the contrary I think the people who focus on this Chicago vs. Houston population thing are the ones who are knocking a place down.
That would be me.

Houston has had a towering, glimmering skyline since the 70's.

The tallest building to go up since 2000 is the 650 ft. Main Place which was recently completed. Impressive for Houston.

Chicago is the birth place of the skyscraper so of course its skyline is going to have an identity. Constructing a 1,000+ footer is nothing for you guys.

Houston still has the 3rd tallest US skyline after Chicago.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side of Texas
12,521 posts, read 23,108,472 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkgiraffe View Post
and with the Panama Canal expansion; we're set. Houston is positioned to where it can experience long-term growth.
This will expand trade with Latin America & Asia.

Trade data:

The Port of Houston is a major point of international trade for the United States. The following is the trade volume by world region reported by the Greater Houston Partnership as of 2006.

Europe 32%
Latin America 22%
Asia/Pacific Rim 15%
North America 13%
Middle East 7%
Africa 12%
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