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Old 10-19-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,607,252 times
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http://nwav37.rice.edu/abstracts/Gordon_Montgomery.pdf (broken link)

The second map on this link really offers one of the best dialect maps I have ever seen.

FAST-US-1 Intro to American English Reference File

 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
http://nwav37.rice.edu/abstracts/Gordon_Montgomery.pdf (broken link)

The second map on this link really offers one of the best dialect maps I have ever seen.

FAST-US-1 Intro to American English Reference File
Why not the first map?

Both are listed with equal credibility.

And I'd read the section (above both maps) where it states that those linguistic boundaries are not absolutes, but tend to blend in all directions, sort of like a gaussian distribution- which I would think they are based upon.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,607,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
Culture of the Southern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Missouri
Missouri is classified as a Midwestern state by the Census Bureau and many of its residents. St. Louis was known as the "Gateway to the West" when settlement was expanding. Some observers include the Missouri Ozarks with the Highland South. The northern edge of the Ozark Plateau was settled chiefly by German immigrants in the mid - to later 19th century, however, who founded numerous vineyards and wineries. Missouri was the second-largest wine-producing state before Prohibition, which destroyed the industry. Wineries have been rebuilt since the later decades of the 20th century, and Missouri wineries are competing well in national festivals. Part of the Missouri River valley, from beyond St. Louis suburbs in St. Charles County to east of Jefferson City, is known as the Missouri Rhineland because of the extensive vineyards and wineries based on German immigrant tradition and descendants.
In the antebellum years, many settlers from the Upper South migrated to counties of central and western Missouri along the Missouri River, where they could cultivate tobacco and hemp. Because the southerners brought their culture and slaveholding with them, this area became known as Little Dixie. Before the Civil War, six of the counties included in the area had populations in which more than 25% were enslaved African Americans, the highest concentrations in the state outside the cotton plantations in the Mississippi Delta.[34] Antebellum houses typical of the South still stand in some of Little Dixie, although for the most part all of Little Dixie is considered to be Midwestern by modern standards. All the crops grown there today are corn, soybeans and wheat, of which the area was far more suited than for Southern crops like cotton, hemp or tobacco, the latter three of which essentially ceased their presence there after the Civil War along with Southern culture."

"Southern dialect
Main article: Southern American English

The merger of pin and pen in Southern American English. The areas marked in purple are where the merger is complete for most speakers. Based on Labov, Ash, and Boberg 2006: 68.


Southern American English is a group of dialects of the English language spoken throughout the Southern region of the United States, from West Virginia and Kentucky to the Gulf Coast, and from the Atlantic coast to throughout most of Texas and Oklahoma.
The Southern dialects make up the largest accent group in the United States.[10] Southern American English."

To answer your question, I spent 1/2 year in the late 1980's during a contract job for the Fed Gov't at a site in Marion, Ill.

Most of the time was spent in Marion, and S. Ill, although my job required me to interface with law enforcement jurisdictions in Illinois, Kentucky, and Missouri.

My impressions of the 'Southernness' of this area comes from that stay, plus a couple of far-shorter visits.

As far as Orlando being Southern, I can assure DH or anyone that in the mid-60's it surely was.

Anyway, the above info paints a picture of a region that is transitional between Midwest and South.

I found the info on Missouri's 'Little Dixie' (see link in Wiki) to be most informative.


I would also caution you on not excluding Missouri from the 'South' due to its Germanic heritage (or more properly, that heritage of some of its citizens.)

My maternal great-grandfather served on Battery Wagner- a German-speaking batallion during the Civil War in the very untransitional southern city of Charleston, S.C.
Yes, I am well aware of Little Dixie.......I see you didnt bother to look at any of the links I posted about the Mississippi Hills Regions of SE Missouri.
DH says you must not have spent much time in Orlando. I dont know, wasnt there.
Lol on cautioning me about Missouris Germanic heritage.....really?
My Mothers side of the family came down the Mississippi in 1699 and settled in the Sainte Genevieve area. When the Germans came in in the 1840s, they intermarried.
My fathers side of the family came to the STL area in the 1840s, they have been there ever since.
I am mostly Prussian, and well aware of the German and French heritage of my area.
Both of my German GGG-grandfathers fought in the Civil War, so not quite sure what you mean by your reference.
If your maternal ancestor was German, and was in SC during the Civil War, why would they not have fought?
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,607,252 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
Why not the first map?

Both are listed with equal credibility.

And I'd read the section (above both maps) where it states that those linguistic boundaries are not absolutes, but tend to blend in all directions, sort of like a gaussian distribution- which I would think they are based upon.
The second map shows state lines, which make it far easier to interpret.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:08 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,826,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
And we all know how wildly inaccurate Wiki can be.
It was rated the equal (accuracy) of Encyclopedia Brittanica in independent analysis.

I can provide a link- if you wish.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 30,607,252 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
It was rated the equal (accuracy) of Encyclopedia Brittanica in independent analysis.

I can provide a link- if you wish.
I'm sitting here with the volume of the Brittanica beside me, of which you speak.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,826,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
The second map shows state lines, which make it far easier to interpret.
But they are not the same, the maps I mean.

And the disclamer as to rigidity explains why.

It's like giving a map coordinate as 'One Yard outside of the Gulf Coastal Plain.'


It is nonsensical.

Last edited by Geechie North; 10-19-2010 at 04:24 PM..
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:13 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,826,761 times
Reputation: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Yes, I am well aware of Little Dixie.......I see you didnt bother to look at any of the links I posted about the Mississippi Hills Regions of SE Missouri.
DH says you must not have spent much time in Orlando. I dont know, wasnt there.
Lol on cautioning me about Missouris Germanic heritage.....really?
My Mothers side of the family came down the Mississippi in 1699 and settled in the Sainte Genevieve area. When the Germans came in in the 1840s, they intermarried.
My fathers side of the family came to the STL area in the 1840s, they have been there ever since.
I am mostly Prussian, and well aware of the German and French heritage of my area.
Both of my German GGG-grandfathers fought in the Civil War, so not quite sure what you mean by your reference.
If your maternal ancestor was German, and was in SC during the Civil War, why would they not have fought?
Point is that Germans (German heritage) was ubiquitous to both sides, so saying Missouri can't be 'Southern' because it has some Germans is inaccurate, to say the least.

And you are correct: neither you or DH know just how much time I spent in Orlando before the invasion of the cartoon people.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:14 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,826,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I'm sitting here with the volume of the Brittanica beside me, of which you speak.
Okay.

FYI, I gave mine away to my oldest son.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 04:16 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 6,826,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
that's really unusual. i've been in st. louis for 2.5 years now and haven't heard y'all. i would notice it, too, being from philadephia. you must have encountered someone who is not a st. louis native, which is entirely possible at an fbi field office. a lot of the people i know who are from st. louis sound more like chicago speakers rather than southern.
Excellent!

I'd call the folks who created the map which contradicts that info, and give them your input.
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